Unbabbled
Unbabbled
Dr. Michele Joseph: Supporting Neurodiverse Students into Young Adulthood | Season 6, Episode 7
In this episode Stephanie speaks with Dr. Michele Joseph, Head of School at Gateway Academy about supporting high school students as they transition into young adulthood. Gateway Academy is a private school in Houston, Texas that serves 6th-12th grade students with academic and social challenges. Through their programming, Gateway supports students on their path to employment, college, and life beyond high school. Throughout her years in education, Michele has found teaching and addressing specific skills such as social communication, problem-solving, time management, and other executive functions have increased all students’ success post high school no matter which direction they take. Michele shares with us her knowledge, talks about Gateways’ unique programing, and gives advice to all parents as they prepare for the young adult years.
Dr. Michele Joseph, EdD is the Founding Head of School of Gateway Academy in Houston, Texas. Her background includes a BS in Speech/Language Pathology, MEd specializing in special populations, and experience as a classroom teacher, Behavior Specialist, and Learning Resource Teacher for 13 years in public schools. She has been the Principal and Head of School in private schools since 1999. She obtained her Doctorate in Educational Leadership with a Dissertation topic of Predictors of Post-Secondary Participation of Neurodiverse Individuals.
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Stephanie Landis (00:06):
Hello and welcome to Babbled, a podcast that navigates the world of special education, communication, delays and learning differences. We are your host, Stephanie Landis and Meredith Krummel, and we're certified speech language pathologist who spend our days at the parish school in Houston helping children find their voices and connect with the world around them.
(00:26):
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(01:35):
Gateway Academy is a unique school in Houston, Texas, serving sixth through 12th grade students with academic and social challenges. Gateway is committed to teaching traditional academics while also meeting the social and emotional needs of their students with learning and social differences. Over the last 15 years, their work has been to provide students with opportunities for identity exploration, learning, self-awareness, and practicing self-advocacy, opening a path to personal significance in college, career and community. For more information, visit their website at www.thegatewayacademy.org. Here at the Parish school, we're often asked by parents, what will my child's life look like after high school? And while there is no crystal ball, today's guest, Dr. Michelle Joseph is here to talk to us about her experience in supporting students as they transition from high school to young adulthood and the skills that they need to be successful. Michelle is the founder and head of school at Gateway Academy, a private school in Houston, Texas that serves sixth through 12th grade students with academic and social challenges.
(02:42):
She has experience in both public and private schools. As the principal, teacher and head of school, Michelle has a doctorate of education. With her research focused specifically on predictors of post-secondary participation in neurodiverse students. Throughout her years in education, Michelle found that teaching and focusing on social communication skills, problem solving, time management, and other executive functions have increased her student success post high school no matter which direction they take. During this episode, Michelle shares her knowledge with us, talks about gateway's, unique programming to support employment and college readiness, and gives advice to all parents as they look into the young adulthood years.
(03:29):
Welcome. Today our guest is Dr. Michelle Joseph, the founder and head of School of Gateway Academy here in Houston, Texas. And we are so excited to talk about life transitioning from high school into post high school and what that is going to look like or could look like because it can look so many different ways and all of the things that come with that. So welcome. We're very excited to have you here with us today. Thank you.
Dr. Michelle Joseph (03:55):
I'm glad to be here. And actually I keep saying us, but today it's just me as Meredith ended up having another conflict, so I get you all to myself. Exciting. It is. So you have a background in education, correct. And you have a passion it seems, for this age group of high schoolers and high schoolers that are ready to launch into adulthood. Absolutely. Gateway Academy was founded as a high school.
(04:23):
We are now a middle school and a high school, and then we also have a young adult program. And so our goal really is to get these guys who are different thinkers, give them some different teaching and get them to a point where they can make some good decisions about what they want their life to look like after high school and make sure that that's realistic and they have a plan for doing that. We have so many families that come to us and even though we are a early childhood through elementary program, and that is one of their biggest questions is what is life going to look like longterm? As a parent of even elementary kids myself, it is hard not to play that game of jumping straight into the future. So this is exciting because it's not a topic that we've talked about yet on the podcast, and I'm really excited to dive in.
(05:17):
My first thought, and it's so broad, but what do you see as the main things that no matter what a student they take through high school and beyond makes them successful as they transition into adulthood? I think obviously it's having the ability to think critically. Also, I think that part of our program is that mental health piece where they understand their own mental health and how it impacts their everyday life and coming up with solutions that are focused on improving their thought patterns. So we are solution-based as much as we possibly can with our licensed professional counselors. I also think that that social communication piece, we really work on cognitive social communication so that in every aspect of everything they do, they understand how to respond and build the relationships that they want to build and creating connections, it's really important. And then that last piece is employment and employability and employment is our north star.
(06:28):
We have focused on that since about 2017 and have found a stark difference in our graduates and what they're doing afterwards. In 2014, we had about 55% of our students who were either learning independent skills or employed or doing some sort of internship or going to college and 45% sitting on the couch is not good for me. And so we created this employability program and by 20 21, 90 5% of our graduates are actively engaged in either employment or college or dependent living skills, living independently. And so we really find that to be a success. So when we created this employment program, that's what made the difference is really teaching those skills that can't just figure it out. It's just really difficult when you're a different thinker and so requires different teaching and making sure that they understand how they impact the world around them and learn how to impact it the way they want to.
(07:38):
And gateway like Parish is a school for children who are divergent and have those social communication things and maybe some learning disabilities going in there. And we do kind of the same here. There is that need to focus on the academics, but we found what makes a student more successful as they transition into different settings, as if they have those critical thinking skills, the ability to advocate for themselves. And it seems like that is similar, that those are the skills that they need to go on. And I'm saying this, but as I read more and more research, it seems like those aren't skills that are just necessary for our population. They're for everybody. Everyone, a lot of young adults sitting on the couch these days and not moving forward. And a big piece of it, obviously Covid impacted the world, but also I think that we don't focus on it as much as it has been in the past.
(08:37):
I know that I was just encouraged to go work when I was 15 years old and did okay working in restaurants and things like that, but our kids have to work so much harder in school that having employment also is a lot, but it's so good for them. And so we've just built it into our day instead. You're right. As a teen, I made my early employment mistakes at Panera Bread where it really didn't matter and there were a bunch of teens around me and they were so patient and I didn't have to make them once I graduated college and was starting out in the real world. And so many high schoolers now have hours and hours of homework and they're not learning those skills, even the time management skills that would take to go to college. Correct, yes. It's really, really difficult. I mean, even the kids who could go to college weren't doing it or they tried it and within a couple of weeks or months, they just cratered because they didn't have the skills to advocate for themselves.
(09:43):
They didn't have the skills to communicate effectively, and they didn't have the skills to be able to really self sustain and push forward and persevere. And so this programming has made all the difference in the world because we push and push and push, but at the same time we have this what we call compassionate accountability. I love that. So we expect things, but we're compassionate about it and making sure that at every turn we're saying, okay, so that didn't go well, so what's your plan? Let's figure out your plan so that we can do this differently next time. We build on that throughout the years until they graduate and they actually have a plan for what they're going to do for the next several years. And we've thought of everything, anything that can go wrong, anything that they need socially, anything they need independent living wise, and anything the parents need.
(10:39):
And so a big piece of this is educating the families to be able to respond to their kid in a way they need to because our families are so used to protecting our kids. They need to all through school, they've had to fight for them and get what they need as far as education goes. And now we at Gateway, when they show up, we say, okay, this is how you're going to do it now because we can't hold their hand anymore. They have got to be able to stand up and fail and get back up and fail, and we don't let 'em fail too much, but enough that they go, okay, I can get back up now and I can create another plan and this will work. And that's really, really important. Building in that resiliency, what are some of the key ways that you help build those executive functioning problem solving skills?
(11:34):
So social communication class first and foremost, that is every single day for every single kid. They have a class for that. And then all of those skills are built into all of our curriculum and our classrooms. And so they are hearing the same thing over and over again. What are you thinking, right? Is that expected or unexpected? What kinds of thoughts are you having and how do you want to portray yourself and how do you want to come across to your friends? Things like that. So getting them to think about it and then create a communication plan based on that, that's really, really important. The other way that we do it supporting that executive functioning and social communication is through study hall classes in middle school and ninth, sometimes 10th grade. Really teaching them those skills on how to organize, how getting a system together and then figuring out what system works for them because I can teach them a system and require them to do it so that they get that daily practice of it.
(12:40):
But then it comes down to, are you going to carry a planner? Are you going to put it on your phone? How are you going to do this? And so when they get to 10th, 11th, and 12th grade, we really try and get them to start creating a plan that really will work for them. And there's that technology piece of it. We do digital citizenship and making sure that they understand the world, the digital world, how to research, how to know things are what they say they are versus someone made it up. We're getting into how to use ai. We're trying to help them figure that out and navigate it. And we also are really proactive, although it's hard on helping parents manage that technology piece at home, because that is one of the biggest things that messes us up. It really is. If the kid has unlimited time to do what they want, then they come to school and they can't be entertained like that at school.
(13:38):
It's not the same. And so they're not engaged. And so we really, really work hard with our parents to understand that, put some limitations on it, and then teach our kids how to put those limitations on themselves and why it's so, so important. So that's huge as well. And then this employment piece does it that pulls it all together and in 10th grade they start doing a culinary class and learning how to work in our commercial kitchen, learning how to work together as a team a little bit, building different recipes, things like that. That executive functioning piece comes into that, as well as the communication piece. You got something hot, you need to be able to say, Hey, I have something hot behind you. Please get out of the way. Or that executive functioning piece especially is for those recipes. How do I follow a recipe?
(14:27):
How do I tell my coworker what I want them to do when we're doing this recipe? So some of 'em become the managers, some of them become the cooks, some of 'em become the dishwasher, and then they kind of trade roles and learn those different roles. And that's so important as they move into 11th grade, we do a half a day of a culinary internship, and so we leave campus with our students, we go to Cat's Coffee, we go to Mod Pizza, and we go to Cake and Bacon and they learn those culinary skills working in a restaurant or coffee shop, learning how to work with the team members there and respond to them and communicate with them and follow a manager's directions. And that is huge. That makes such a huge, huge difference. And then as a senior, they have half a day for the first half of the year is internships at Memorial Hermann, HGB and the Sheridan, where they do different roles and try and do more independent kinds of things.
(15:28):
They're not working in a group anymore. They were in 11th grade, they're doing go to HEB and K, you'll be in floral, you'll be doing sacking and bagging, those kinds of things. And then getting graded and responses from their manager and the real world. And that's huge because then as a senior, their spring year, they can go out and get a job and we can manage that too and help coach them through that all the way. We're always coaching, we're always there. We're always making sure that they learn from the mistake they just made and recoup and get back into it. That's huge. It made the difference. And our kids are now showing up in college and able to sustain because they've had this experience, they're able to keep a job and they're able to drive now where many of 'em just couldn't put that together very well, and now they are.
(16:21):
And that's huge. So I, I mean really can't believe how much of a difference this program made in so many different aspects. So everybody should be learning those employment skills. It's really, really important because it translates into so many other different things. It seems like so logical to me. And I am thinking back to my own high school where I was able to get all my credits done in the morning and then in the afternoon I either took a college course or I went and I worked. Correct. And so to me, that seems natural. And now I talk to parents and friends of mine that have high schoolers and they're like, no, they couldn't possibly miss an academic course or this extra credit course or this or the other. And they just seem so stressed about the number of credits they're getting in high school and their students are not having those same internship things and then they go off to college and the time management is different.
(17:21):
They can manage heavy workloads, but their ability to self, yes, self-regulate, regulate their time to self-manage. You're talking about the technology when you have only three classes a day and the professor doesn't care if you show up or not. Exactly. And you could spend all day playing on video games or the computer or staring at Instagram. There's the shift of accountability of being able to be accountable for your own time and accountable to other people. It is such a huge life switch. Correct. And it leads into a mental health issue too. These students are becoming depressed and feel worthless and a lot of 'em say, I just don't want to do anything, and they just don't have a future goal. And that is so hard for anybody to feel confident and to get up and do something. And so it's really, really important that we teach them these skills.
(18:17):
Everybody kind of needs this, but our guys especially, they need explicit teaching. They are different learners, and so they need that explicit teaching. Do you ever find pushback from parents that want more focus on the academics? Originally we did, but now people come to us because of this and that's important. I think that parents are starting to realize it, and I think you guys do a good job of talking about the fact that this is just not all about academics. We want them to be self-sufficient, and we want them to be independent, and in order to do that, they have to have some of these employment skills and communication skills and mental health skills. And so those are so important. I love that you mentioned some of these things need to be directly taught because so much of communication between adults, especially when you get into college or workplace or just making friends out in the real world, it becomes much more shades of gray and indirect communication and less definitive timelines and more implied communication.
(19:31):
And a lot of that can be really difficult for students with communication difficulties or some social language and pragmatic difficulties on the autism spectrum. Even our A DHD kids who appear to have it together just might be a little disorganized or a lot disorganized, even those guys, they really need that explicit teaching. They are thinking about what they're thinking about, and our A DHD kids are kind of in it and out real fast, and so they're not learning the skills also to be able and recognizing when they've made a mistake and how to fix it. Instead, they're just, okay, I'm onto something else. And so we've got to hold them in that moment and really teach them through that, and it makes a huge difference. Our guys really, our middle schoolers have a lot of regulation issues and a lot of academic issues. And so we're really focused on remediating those academics while also teaching those self-regulation skills.
(20:33):
And once they get to high school, they really pull it together and they've got it and they can do all these things that we're asking them to do. It's hard. It's really hard, and I spend a great deal of time running the school, but my office is right there where all the kids are going to classes and things. And so they're constantly coming in, sitting on my couch and going, oh, I just can't keep going. I can't keep going. And so I spent a lot of time helping coach them through that and then go, your job is to be in class. Your job is to be successful. If you really need to take a minute right now, we can do that. Let's do it constructively through movement or doing something, a mindfulness activity, trying to give them some skills for when they are in an office somewhere or in a college class somewhere.
(21:23):
They can just say, you know what? It's time for me to take a break. My head is spinning and I'm overwhelmed right now. So we have lots of fitness equipment and things like that that they can use throughout the hallways, and they learn to say, I just need to take a minute. And they go, they do it, and they come back to class and they're ready to learn. So that's huge for them. It is. And it helps with burnout. It helps them then attend if they can regulate themselves and then come back to the task attending in reading. And I think that's huge because I know I keep saying this, but I know adults who it looks like they are now focusing on how to self-regulate, and we never taught these skills. And even more so I'm at, I've gone on a lot of school tours, my children are in school and I look and I'm like, they are not learning how to ask for a break.
(22:18):
And if they ask for a break, they're like, no, because you have to push through this math. Exactly. I'm like, why? Because she's not going to get the right answer. She's just pushing through. If you give her a minute, she'll come back and get the right answer, but that's a whole different topic. And so I love that these kids are learning those skills now and putting them into practice so that when they are on their own and the adults that they've been practicing with for so long, aren't there co-regulating or telling them to go regulate that they can have the skills that are going to be long-term successful for them? Correct. It's so wonderful. I was talking with one of our graduates this week, and he is at the Texas a and m Paths program, learning to be a teaching assistant and he loves it, but the independent living independently and alone is hard.
(23:08):
Also regulating himself and setting himself up for his mental health to be strong throughout the day has been really challenging for him. But this week I was talking with him, he said, yeah, I'm up taking a walk in the mornings now. I walk a mile and sometimes I'll run. I found that that really makes a difference in my day. And so, okay, fit Club is really good and I need to tell all your kids that this is really important that they do it in the future. And it's just so awesome to listen to our graduates go, okay, you were right. I've been lazy and I'm going to it now. And it makes a huge difference. Aren't those the best words? I know. I know. It's awesome. But it is even more awesome because it's not just that you were right, but that the kids are figuring things out.
(23:58):
They have that life bulb moment and now they're like, I get it and I have the skills and I can imply them. Absolutely. And he was calling us all the time because he was used to leaning out on us for his mental health. And really, I say mental health, I want to be careful because I'm not talking about kids who have really significant issues that need to be dealt with by licensed professionals. I'm talking about the kids who have that anxiety, kids who have difficulty just persevering and pushing through and handling everything when it's all different. You're living somewhere else, you're going to school, you're trying to make new friends. That's really, really hard at one time. And so I finally said, why don't you find a counselor there? And so they did, and he sees his counselor now and he's so happy. He's just really flourishing.
(24:53):
So I'm so proud that when those moments happen for us, we both speak frequently with Renee Attaway store, and her biggest soapbox is that grit and resilience. And it sounds like when you're talking about overall mental health, it's not the depression or other things. It's building in that resilience and the grit and the determination that they can get through it. It helps keep them from being depressed, but helps keep them from falling into the abyss, and that's so easy for them to do if they're not doing these things for themselves. So yes, Renee Attaway is one of my favorites. Me too. So you mentioned Fit Club. What is Fit Club? Fit Club is a time, first thing every morning where the entire school teachers and everybody works out. And so we do that for 40 minutes every morning, and the students all participate in some sort of fitness.
(25:48):
We have eight different classes that they rotate through every couple of weeks and learn just different types of fitness, all of it being something that you would see in a health club or a gym so that when they leave here, they know what that looks like and they can do it. They go, oh, I can go to a spin class because we have spin class every morning. They can go to a yoga class because we have yoga, we do running, we do basketball, we have a track team, and we also have a hit class. The high intensity workout classes. We have martial arts. And so they're learning to do all kinds of different activities that they would see anywhere that they go so that they feel comfortable when they leave here. And then our seniors actually have a membership to the YMCA and the YMCA hosts us every morning for our seniors and our basketball team.
(26:42):
So they're used to going to a fit club and working out and then showering and doing all those things because another big hurdle for our guys so that they're comfortable when they leave. So everything we do is about what will you see out there in the real world? Okay, let's give you that experience and push you through it. And it makes a huge difference. You're right, because there are different expectations and every gym that you go to, a spin class is going to be different from this. And so they don't have to walk in and figure out what are the hidden rules? Exactly, exactly. How does this work? How do I set up my bike? All those kinds of things. They know all of that. So it makes a huge difference. I had no idea that that program was offered at Gateway. Yes, we start for our elementary classes, almost every single class starts our day with a nature walk or morning outdoor time.
(27:35):
And it's great. It's the same thing. You get your body moving, you get that time outdoors, you get that regulation in, and then you can jump right in and be ready to learn. And we also can figure out during that time whether or not a kid really responds to that exercise piece. Some of our guys, it gets them riled up and just, they're just horrible afterwards. They can't. And so we figure that out too and give them ways to do something calming that will work for them. It's still movement, but it's calming. And so we have a lot of guys who get on the treadmill and just walk, and that makes a huge difference. But the yoga also has made a difference for us too. Once we added that in, we found that those guys who get riled up yoga makes a huge difference for them in the mornings and they need it.
(28:23):
And that's so true because it's another aspect of finding what works individually for each kid and then helping them carry that into the future instead of a general move your body, right. Well, okay, well, I tried this and it made everything riled me up even more. It didn't work, so now I'm just going to give up on movement. Correct. And so that's really important for us. We really try and watch the kids and figure out what's not working, what's making them uncomfortable. And if it's just uncomfortableness, we push through it. But if it truly is changing their state of mind to something that's negative, then we want to figure it out. And that's one of the magical things about Gateway also is the staff that I hire are allowed to look at things and go, okay, that's not working. What else can we do? And then as a team, we figure out what's the plan for that kid?
(29:21):
And we really try and make it so that each kid really does have a plan when they walk out the door that works for them. And that's so helpful. And also, if it's not, they try it and if it doesn't working, they have the tools correct to figure out. And they've been seen, okay, if something's not working, I don't give up. I can shift and make a new plan. And they also know that we're always there. And so that's a big thing. Several of our kids reach out to us, but it's parents that really kind of need that guidance. And so we're teaching them along the way, but reminding them that those first couple of years are going to be hard, so call us because we can help and trying to do more alumni kinds of things to be able to support the parents and the kids as well.
(30:07):
I feel like as a parent, I would also need a plan. I'd be like, okay, tell me when I should make them do their loan laundry. You're going to have to force me to let them make dinner. Yes. And we do. We do absolutely. Once they start culinary, they're required to cook at least one meal a week for the family. So it's really important. And I think it also gives the parents that permission almost to relax. As you said, they're so used to having be heavily involved, advocating ahead of the game every step of the way. It is so hard then to pull back and we have to in order to get that independence. Do you have advice for parents on how to do that?
(30:49):
I think that it's working with the people that your child spends time with in school or any type of other church, that kind of thing. Any of the religious kinds of things they might do. Just working with those people to figure out what does spark my kid? What does set them off? How can we implement these kinds of things? And coming up with a roadmap that way. It's really hard in the public schools. It doesn't always work, and I'd love to change that, but I know that I can't. I've tried, me too, did it for 17 years, not doing it anymore. But I think that getting them to a place where they rely on those professionals that they're working with, they're counselors. That also is huge and helping guide them, but they just need to remember that they need to think about social kinds of things.
(31:42):
And so one of the things we require is that our seniors, whatever type of social thing they might be doing in the future, we want them to start their senior year so that that's not new to them when they are graduates. And they've already practiced that. So that's huge. Working on whether or not they will drive a car or how transportation will go, that's really important. And then figuring out is college, is community college? What kind of classroom might they need? Or are we going to start doing some employment and working with professionals to figure out what that looks like for my kid? If parents don't have as wonderful of a place as Gateway around them, do you have any suggestions on ways that they can help their child if they are starting a summer job or they have just graduated and they're going to head into either college or straight into employment?
(32:38):
Yes. I would say find a professional who can help you with that. There are people around who do this for a living and to support the kids and to help you come up with a plan. Our young adult program is one of the things that does that for these guys. We've got kids who have gone to college and actually been successful, but again, can't make that next step. They can't generalize it and make that next step into independence and working. And so our young adult program is focused on that. So if you can find a professional to help you through this process, that's really important. There's some counselors out there. I know Julie Jones does a lot of help and support in this area of transition. Renee Attaway actually is really good at figuring out these kinds of things also and creating a plan. There's several people out there who really can help you manage this and put it together in a realistic way.
(33:35):
So we're thinking about speech language pathologists, counselors, mental health professionals. Yeah, it's a lot of times in the mental health realm, although I know Renee is in the speech therapy realm, but it can be either one. There are speech therapists out there who really understand this as well and can do it as also, I think that's really important is to find somebody who can do that. I'm finding more and more that some community college and larger college campuses have started having more supports. Absolutely built in. Yeah. We really are strong about the fact that our kids are in small classes every day. And so by the time they're a senior, the biggest is about 12, but that's still really small. And so we kind of focus on either really, really small four year colleges or else community college to start out. And Lone Star and HCC both have significant programs that are so great at supporting and figuring out how to navigate college and giving them those skills that they need while they're taking these classes.
(34:45):
And that's been huge for the kids that continue to need that help. And then they're also the professors and those kinds of things are really great about helping them. University of Clear Lake is another one that has a great program for kids on the spectrum. And then they have a great, great learning center, and it's small still, so they have small classes and the professors kind of get the kids, and that's really nice too. It's a great place. And then St. Thomas has a wonderful program here in Houston as well. And so we really kind of rely on those for our college. So even though your school is private, students at your school can have a public school's IEP, individual education plan, and those will follow into college and no. Okay. So once they're in a private school, they are evaluated every three years still.
(35:34):
We want them to still have those evaluations and HISD, which is where we sit, can come in and do the paperwork for those kinds of things so that they have that paperwork for the future, and that carries with them. So it's not necessarily an IEP because they're not required to write an IEP for a private school, but we have all of the goals and things that they've accomplished as well as need to continue to do that, follow them as well. So that's kind of how we do that. They get the accommodations for testing and for reading and things like that, that they need. And I help with that as well. We teach them what their accommodations are and what they need so that they can then carry that into college and ask for those accommodations. They have to be the one asking Now, mom and dad can't do that.
(36:24):
And so sometimes I go with them, they ask me to go to that first accommodations meeting so that they get their accommodations, but it's really important that they have that as well. But those are the places that really are wonderful for our kids. And I'm glad that you pointed that out, that shift to them as the student needing to have that ownership and go and make sure the accommodations are in place and ask for them. And one of the other things, just thinking about paperwork kinds of things, we're educating our parents on what kind of guidance you need to have for once your child turns 18. And we really, really recommend that medical power of attorney, and I recommend it for all 18 year olds so that parents can always still be part of their health and doctor's visits. And then also supportive decision making.
(37:15):
Really important. We don't have many kids who require to have guardianship, but there are those kids out there who still need that as well. And so making sure that you're doing that before they're 18 is really important for their future so that you can continue to make some decisions with them. And I love that you said with them too. Yes, yes. It's really important that we're doing it with them at that age, if they're capable of making those decisions. And the kids that come through Gateway are, and so with parents help and support, and we just want to set them up for that so that they can continue to get that support. And as the students go through your program and they're making these plans for the future, how much are they a part of making the plan? Oh, it's their plan. And as a matter of fact, one of the things that we say is your story is your responsibility.
(38:02):
And so we guide a lot and we get parent input so that we're clear on what the family is comfortable with, and then we go through and step by step go, oh, that didn't work. Okay, let's try something else until it does work. And then we say, okay, put that on your plan. We know that works. That's what we want to be part of your plan for the future. So it's important the kid is doing the testing of it, lack of a better word as they go through, and then coming up with a plan that works and then they present it to their parents at the end of the senior year and say, we've worked with you, we've worked with our mentors, we've worked with our teachers, and this is the plan that we have. Usually the parents kind of know what the plan is.
(38:44):
We've worked on it through the whole time, but it's so inspiring to watch the kids present it to their parents, and their parents just usually walk away crying and going, oh my gosh, he can do this. And it's just a wonderful moment. Do you find that that helps build more? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that this employment piece of it is really, it's not foreign to parents, but it's foreign to parents on, oh, we need to teach them that too. So because we're doing it so heavily starting in middle school all the way up, we're teaching the parents how to do that and how to support them in the right way so that in the end they've practiced doing the support thing and then can do it when they leave us. And I think there's so many things that come that we either learned young that we forget that we have to learn or come naturally to some parents that we forget that we have to go back and be like, oh yeah, I have to teach to do this, teach you how to do that.
(39:49):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it is kind of amazing when we start, we give them a list of skills that they should be doing around the house or every day, and the parents look at it and go, oh my gosh, he knows how to do that. He knows how to do that. He knows how to do that. Okay, go home and see if he does that. Tell him he needs to do that for this entire week. Can he do it really by himself and sustain it? That's the question. It's not just, oh, I think I saw him do that one time. He can do it. It's a fascinating experience to see what things we really do need to teach. It's fascinating to watch the kids all of a sudden become free because they know how to do it now and they don't have to worry about it as much.
(40:34):
I can't imagine being in their heads all day long where, yeah, okay, I need to do that, but I don't really know how to do that, so I'm just going to do this, and then I mess up. I just, Ugh, it's so hard. I actually am dyslexic. And so I struggled all through school and just felt so stupid and so challenged, and so it was really, really hard. And the first year of college, boy, I blew it. I really, really blew it. But got some skills over the summers for executive functioning and for reading, and it made the difference. And so just teaching them explicit things is really, really important. You sit there and you say, I felt stupid. And it feels like that. And I think that that's one of the things that we work so hard for our kids is to be like, well, you might feel like it, but you are not.
(41:24):
Exactly. Exactly. You are not. There's something in your brain that's making this difficult for you or more difficult, but you are not absolutely. You are a smart person and you have all of these tools. Let's go use those tools to help you overcome this thing that's making things extra hard for you. And then the other piece of that is that we try and help them figure out where are you smart? What area are you smart in? And so let's push that so that you are practicing some skills where, oh my gosh, I feel smart. And that's really important too, so that negative self-talk starts to change a little bit, and then maybe that's your career. And so we need to make sure that we are setting you up for that and finding the right program to help build those skills so that you can become employable in that area.
(42:14):
It's such a last minute shift in the conversation, but that is so important. One of the things that we talk about all the time here at Parrish is that we want to find the students' strengths and not just focus on the weaknesses. Correct. And build up those strengths. And one of the reasons that all of these kids come and they are loving our fine arts program because they are just so gifted creatively or they're talented in drama and they get up on stage and they turn into this whole other human and it makes you cry. It's amazing. It really is. Or they have such, we had one student come through that had such a passion for animals and we're like this, maybe reading and writing is difficult for you, but you are so talented with animals. You could become an animal trainer. This is natural for you.
(43:03):
And just their demeanor as they were heading out of elementary school that they were like, yeah, you know what? I do have these skills that will take me far in life. And that is such a great shift as they're heading into adulthood to stop focusing so much. We do so much therapy with these kids because they need it and it helps support them, but we don't want them to spend all day thinking about, I can't do this. I can't do this. Reading is really hard for me. Reading sucks. School sucks. It's like, okay, reading is hard for me, but look how amazing I am at drawing comics. I can be an author. Yeah, definitely. And I think the caveat there is finding the things that they're good at, not just the things that they enjoy. Yes. And so lot be YouTubers. Exactly. A lot of the teaching goes into, okay, that's something you like, but it's not something you actually have skills in.
(43:56):
And so let's figure out how to be something other than a race car driver or a game developer. I've done this, gateway's been open for 18 years now, and I have one game developer and that's it. And he was very, very determined to do it and found his place. It just doesn't happen very often. And so we really want to push the things that you're actually good at and figure that out. That sweet spot of value like it, and I'm good at it. Exactly. Exactly. And push 'em in the right direction. Yes. It's funny that you say that at commencement every year, the kids are like, this is what I'm going to be when I grow up. And nine times out of 10, they're all going to be YouTubers. Exactly. And it's great to dream big when you're leaving elementary school. It's a total shift as you head into high school and beyond.
(44:44):
Exactly. Exactly. And one of the things that we do, we don't want to crush dreams, but at the same time, when they start talking about something that is just probably not going to happen, it's okay. Research that for me. What kind of skills do you need to have? What kind of schooling do you need to have for that? How long do you have to be trained? When will you actually be able to do that? How long will that take? Will that support you? Is that a job that will actually pay enough money to support you? And once they've researched it, we usually come to the conclusion that might not be the place. They're usually pretty good about going, yeah, okay, that's not really going to work, but that's the way you get that buy-in instead of the like, well, whatever. I'm just going to go do it.
(45:26):
And then they go and do it and it doesn't work out. And then they don't have another plan. Exactly. We stop saying no to them. I mean, some parents say, no, you're not going to do that. You're going to do this. We stop saying no. Instead we say, okay, present an argument for that. Let me see the research that you've done on that and what it will take to do that, and let's talk about it. And they usually come up with either this is going to work or this part of it will work. I can be this thing. As opposed to full-time, YouTuber or gamer, those kinds of things. And so that's really, really important. Well, I appreciate all of the information you've given us, and I am leaving feeling like as my children get older, I need to help make sure they get a job while they get through high school.
(46:12):
Yes, absolutely. Because it is so important for whatever they end up doing in life. And we end our podcast by asking everyone the same question, and it can be related to everything we've talked about today, or it can be something completely unrelated. If you had one piece of advice to give to people listening today, what would it be? Listen. Give guidance and find a professional to help you in the process. Yeah, really important. And give the idea that instill the idea that the students can make a difference and go out there and make a difference in the world. That's really important for us. Our pledge actually, that we say every morning we say the Pledge of allegiance, and then we say our school pledge, this is my day. I will do something good. This is your day. You can make a difference together, we can change the world. And that is really what we base everything we do on you can make a difference in the world. How are you going to do it and what's realistic for you? I love that. Thank you. Such a great weight end the episode. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking to you today. Me too. Thank you.
Stephanie Landis (47:25):
Thank you for listening to the Unled podcast. For more information on today's episode, please see our episode description. For more information on the parish school, visit parish school.org. If you're not already, don't forget to subscribe to the Un Babbled Podcast on your app of choice. And if you like what you're hearing, be sure to leave a rating and review. A special thank you to Andy Williams, Joanna Rissmiller, and Molly Weisselberg for all their hard work behind the scenes. Thanks again for listening.