When Supporting Your Child Means Supporting Yourself, with expert Courtney Suddath | Season 7 Episode 5

In parenting, it’s often said that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. In other words, children are often a lot like their parents! This can be a great thing and also cause some frustration. In this episode we speak with licensed professional counselor, Courtney Suddath, about ways parents can support their children when they find themselves having the same struggles. 

Courtney Suddath recently opened a private practice, Sycamore Family Counseling in Cypress, Texas. Previously she was the Clinical Director at Cy-Hope Counseling. In addition to her counseling services, Courtney provides supervision for Licensed Professional Counselor Associates. She has a Master’s degree in Psychology from Houston Baptist University. She has been working with children, teens, adults and families for over 20 years. Courtney worked in the classroom at The Parish School in the 90’s and later returned as the Director of Admissions and Family Services for several years. Courtney has experience in working with children who have special needs and their families. Her focus is to guide individuals and families to change patterns, discover positive and productive communication techniques, and strengthen relationships to increase success at home, at school, and in their community. Courtney’s ultimate goal in counseling is to give children and families hope and tools to work towards healing what has been negatively affected by the circumstances of life.

Transcript

Stephanie Landis (00:06):

Hello and welcome to UnBabbled, a podcast that navigates the world of special education, communication, delays and learning differences. We are your host, Stephanie Landis and Meredith Krimmel, and we're certified speech language pathologists who spend our days at the parish school in Houston helping children find their voices and connect with the world around them.

Stephanie Landis (00:25):

Gateway Academy is a unique school in Houston, Texas, serving sixth through 12th grade students with academic and social challenges. Gateway's committed to teaching traditional academics while also meeting the social and emotional needs of their students with learning and social differences. Over the last 15 years, their work has been to provide students with opportunities for identity exploration, learning self-awareness, and practicing self-advocacy, opening a path to personal significance in college, career and community. For more information, visit their website at www.thegatewayacademy.org. In parenting, it's often said that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Stephanie Landis (01:07):

In other words, children are often a lot like their parents. This can be a great thing and at times cause some frustration. In this episode, we speak with licensed professional counselor, Courtney Suddath about ways parents can support their children when they find that they themselves are having some of the same struggles. Courtney recently opened a private practice, Sycamore Family Counseling in Cypress, Texas. She has over 20 years of experience working with children, teens, adults, and families. Her focus is to guide individuals and families to change patterns, discover positive and productive communication techniques, and strengthen relationships. Throughout today's episode, Courtney reassures parents that they are not alone if they have struggles addressing areas of difficulty for their children that they themselves may find challenging. She also provides insights and strategies parents and caregivers can use to build new patterns and coping strategies to foster positive changes in their families. If you are like me and have apples that didn't fall far from the tree, we hope you find this episode helpful and reassuring.

Stephanie Landis (02:10):

Welcome back to another episode of UnBabbled. We're excited today to have a former parish school employee and beloved person here on campus. Courtney Suddath, she is a licensed professional counselor, and we're so excited to talk to you today.

Courtney Suddath (02:24):

Thank you. It's really great to be back here.

Stephanie Landis (02:26):

Yes. So we have a topic that Meredith and I have been wondering about for a long time of how to support your children through their own difficulties and challenges when you also realize that maybe the apple didn't fall that far from the tree, and you also are struggling with those same difficulties, and we know this is a huge topic, but we're really excited to dive into

Courtney Suddath (02:49):

It. Awesome.

Stephanie Landis (02:51):

Before we dive into it, do you want to just tell a little bit about what you do in your own practice?

Courtney Suddath (02:55):

Yeah, so I am, as you said, a licensed professional counselor. I also do some supervision, so I actually see children, but I also see people of all ages. So I often work with parents and families. That's really my favorite group of people to work with are parents who come in and say, so some things' not going well. I need help figuring out what it is. And sometimes it's exactly what you said with what's going on with the family system because we all bring our stuff. We all bring, we're doing the best we can with what we have, and so that's what we're doing. So that's what I do. I see clients at S iHope right now moving into private practice in January. Yeah, that's what

Stephanie Landis (03:41):

I think. That's so exciting. As I started having children and my brothers, my mom would kind of laugh and she'd be like, oh, you're raising yourselves. Good luck.

Courtney Suddath (03:50):

That is an interesting dynamic when that happens when you hear yourself coming out of your child. And I was like, well, how do I help parent the me

Meredith Krimmel (03:58):

Of my child? You're raising yourself or you're raising your spouse.

Stephanie Landis (04:01):

Yes.

Meredith Krimmel (04:02):

Or

Stephanie Landis (04:02):

A version version of that they combine. In my world, I was like, my God, my husband and I are amazing. We're going to have these children that just only got the best of both of us. And then it was like, oh, she got double stubborn. Yeah, yeah, for sure. We're in trouble. So this is something that you commonly work with families on?

Courtney Suddath (04:21):

Absolutely. We're

Stephanie Landis (04:21):

Not alone in feeling like

Courtney Suddath (04:22):

This. You are not alone. I think all of us as parents and then definitely in the professional world, I don't think I have seen a client, especially a child who hasn't dealt with something like this. And parenting is hard. Parenting is super hard. It's a cheesy phrase, but there is not a book and there really is not. Well, there's lots of books, right? There's lots of books not on one on your, and also, when do you as a parent have time to read those books? I don't know. I know what that, and they're not really manuals. They're like, they're not. They're suggestions. Right? Absolutely. So yeah, I mean a lot of people come in maybe not even knowing what the problem is, but definitely feeling your own weakness as a parent in the midst of raising children. And I think one of the most important things though is a consistent message to parents.

Courtney Suddath (05:19):

Yes, we are raising the difficult parts of ourselves in our children, but we are also raising the really equipped positive parts of our children, of ourselves and our children. And I think when we're looking at that, that's an important place to start because typically when families come to see me, they're already feeling tired and ill equipped, and some parents come in feeling like they might be a failure, which is absolutely not true. I think, as I said before, we are definitely in this together and we're just doing the best we can with what we have. So what I love is to, when families find a counselor that is a good fit for them, being able to partner with support, and I know that's what parish school is all about, is partnering with people who can help support you in these children you've been tasked to raise and it's not easy, but when you find the right support that can help you and your children, I think it's a good thing.

Stephanie Landis (06:22):

Especially since a lot of the children that we have work with here on campus, or as Meredith and I admitted our own children are having great executive functioning difficulties that once I saw, I was like, oh, I thought that I had systems that worked for

Courtney Suddath (06:36):

Me

Stephanie Landis (06:37):

And then I had kids and the load came on it, or they added their own level of need. Then I saw the cracks here at the parish school and even ized own children, we have children who have extra struggles that they might have a certain diagnosis, their brain is wired a little differently. It's just the way they are that just might add to it. And I thought that as a parent, I mean I know my mom used to tell me that if my head wasn't attached, I would lose it. So to me it wasn't a shock, but I thought going in as adult, I've got some great systems. I've beat this, I am organized. This is great. And then I had kids and then their demands started going and I was like, oh my gosh, I don't have systems. This is not working anymore. Is that something that's

Courtney Suddath (07:23):

Common? You find it's very common. I think even with children who have greater needs, but also children who don't, everyone needs help with something. It is a spotlight put on us when we have our children and we begin, as we talked about parenting ourselves. So we are more likely to see the weaknesses in our children that are also ours. So what I like to remind parents is whatever the difficulty is, there is a solution. Take pressure off of yourself, and yes, maybe you have some systems that have helped you get through to adulthood that your child doesn't have, and that's the part where we have to look at your age versus your child's developmental age and what really is age appropriate for your child. We have the tendency as adults to look at children and have this mentality of we're raising adults, we want to get them to adulthood.

Courtney Suddath (08:23):

Yes, that is true, but it does take all of those years to adulthood for that to actually happen. We unfortunately cannot skip steps. So it's important for us to give ourselves a break as parents take a deep breath and realize, okay, they're five. It is completely typical for them to not know where their shoes are at this time. Is that something that sets me over the edge in the morning when I am trying to also, like you said, cope with my own difficulties before we're parents, it's this point of like, okay, I can get up, control my environment, get myself ready and get out the door. Then the unexpected part comes in of getting children ready also, who are like, what am I doing? Where am I going? They don't have the life experience that we have to know exactly what's next. We are waking up and we're thinking, okay, my job, here I am, this is executive functioning to a T.

Courtney Suddath (09:19):

Here I am getting out of bed, getting showered, getting ready for work, and then I know the end result is going to work. I'm at work. All of the pieces in between, right? That's executive functioning. That's confusing. I don't know how to get from A to B As adults, we've figured that out. Kids, not only have they not figured that out, they don't even really know. They're like, oh, I'm in the car. Am I going to school today? Yes, you're going to school today. It's Tuesday. They're like, I don't know what Tuesday is. Do I have to go to school today? So we have to remember, we have this frame of reference, this knowledge base that kids don't necessarily have. So in working with adults and children in this, I mean you guys do this at the parish school picture schedules. Can you imagine as an adult going through your day, showing up at work and not having anything written or on a computer calendar?

Courtney Suddath (10:12):

No. Right. If someone was like, oh, you're going to go through today with your 10 clients today and your meetings, but you don't get to look at the schedule that you have made, sweating would a nervous breakdown. But isn't that essentially what we're asking children to do? We really are because we, especially on the weekends, especially on the weekends and unstructured time, anytime I'm working with children who need that extra help and we'll hear from teachers or parents, they're having a meltdown. They're having a meltdown, it's almost always in that unstructured time, not unstructured necessarily for the adult, but definitely unstructured for the child. They're like, I don't actually know. Yes, we might have lunch and then recess in that order every single day, but they don't necessarily remember that. And that to us if we're raising adults is confusing. Why do they not know this?

Courtney Suddath (11:09):

Well, because they're children. That's why they don't know this. So lists work for me, schedules work for me. That might be a coping skill. If it's not, then that's where we can start with an adult. But children need that too. So having helping kids know this is what has to be done in the morning before we leave, having that picture schedule, that's something we put in place all of the time here. But back to your question about the fractures in our own coping skills, we might realize, yeah, I thought I had this together, but now I realize when I become stressed, I handle things differently. We did something at the parish school when I worked here, and it was eyeopening to me, and I'm going to say it very briefly. They had us picture ourselves during the day at work in a very productive, positive, great day.

Courtney Suddath (11:58):

And then we answered these questions on our coping skills and then, okay, do some little imagery. Worst day, all of these things that are unexpected happen. Nothing goes right now. Answer these questions. And so the point of this was to look at yourself and how you behave and cope as an adult when things are going your way and then how they're not. I was a totally different person. I was a totally different person. What I learned about myself is when I can't control my environment, I have no idea what's going on, and all of the unexpected things come into my life. Then I grasp for control. I'm looking to control my environment. My husband has a joke. He'll come in and the house will be really clean and he'll say, oh, a rough day. I'm like, yeah, it was a rough day. And so that's not it for everyone, but I need things to be in their place.

Courtney Suddath (12:54):

Kids are the same way. So as adults, if we're struggling with organization, and I don't mean organization, things going where they need to be, everybody has their own level of where they are with that. I don't mean cleanliness and organization. I mean how we organize our day, how we control our environment, to what level, how do we like things to be so with kids, if we are struggling with that, they're struggling with that. So getting an adult, getting help with that, if they see the fractures get help, what works in one season of life is not going to work for us in another season of life. What worked for us in pre-children may not still work for us in post children. And so we have to learn and adapt to this new way of life. And if we see fractures in how we're coping, yeah, they're there for everybody. It's okay. We'll just problem solve. Yeah,

Meredith Krimmel (13:48):

I hear you saying you have to help yourself before you can help your child. The oxygen

Courtney Suddath (13:51):

Mask. The oxygen mask, we talked about this. I often tell a story about before I had children and the flight attendants would talk about the oxygen mask, and I thought it was incredibly selfish that we would, anyone on the plane would put an oxygen mask on themselves before they would a child or someone that needed help. And then I had children and I realized we do actually have to breathe in order to help our children to breathe and live. And I think that's a great analogy for all of life. We have to be able to get ourselves out of the door without losing it. It's okay to lose it sometimes too. That's the caveat because we are human and sometimes we do lose it and hey, we can apologize to our kids and how great for our kids to also see, this is hard for mom and dad too.

Courtney Suddath (14:42):

Getting out the door is hard for me too. So we're going to work together so it's easier for you and it's easier for me. But yeah, we do have to take care of ourselves first. So the model I really use in helping families, and oftentimes it is a child who comes in and they're like, they're really struggling. We really need help. And that's usually the case. The child is struggling, but oftentimes the parent and I see this so often, they're like, I can't get help for myself because I need to put those time and those financial resources towards my child. There's great news for that. Both can be done at the same time without sometimes even an additional use of resources. It's really important. My model is before I see a child at all, I sit with the parents and talk to them about what they're experiencing and there is no judgment in that you are coming because things aren't working.

Courtney Suddath (15:37):

I have gone to seek help when things were not working with my children. This is what we do. We go to people who are trained and who have experience and also who are not at my dinner table that can help me step aside and look at the bigger picture and say, okay, yeah, maybe I could try this. Right? So meeting with a counselor, a therapist to talk about, yeah, honestly, this is my struggle too. This sort of hits. I feel a little guilty about this. I feel like I gave this to my kid. Hopefully then in that session you'll be reassured. No, you didn't. This is just part of life and so let's figure it out. You're here now. There's no room in my opinion, when you're parenting, there's no room in pointing out all of the things that haven't worked or that you haven't done. Right? We're here to move forward. So what can we do to help you feel better? And then what can we do to help your child? And it's all problem solving.

Stephanie Landis (16:38):

I think you hit an important and point there. We took one of my own children to go to play therapy and I knew they were going to ask us to be involved because as a speech pathologist, especially when I worked with younger kids, I knew that I could really only help the child even with their language if the parents were involved and I was coaching the parents through how to use these communication strategies at home or else it was really ineffective. My husband, however, was shocked that he was going to have to meet and that our once a month we would have check-ins and talk about us and what we were doing. And he was just like, wait, what? This is me too. Do you find I didn't sign

Courtney Suddath (17:17):

Up for

Stephanie Landis (17:17):

Therapy? Exactly. Do you find that most parents are excited for that? Are they surprised? My husband? It sounds like that's a core of your approach and hopefully should be for most people.

Courtney Suddath (17:29):

Yeah, I hope that it is for everyone. I have been doing this for almost 23 years, and I have yet to work with a child of any age, child, adolescent, teen, where the parents have not been involved. And it is critical because best case scenario, I'm with a child for 45 minutes to an hour once a week, and as we see progress, that decreases. So I'm not in their home, I am not in the car pool line when they get in after a rough day, I don't see these interactions. It is critical for me to have that relationship with the parent so that one, I can support the parent. I don't want to be giving some message that worked for my children or for another client to this child if that doesn't fit in with the culture of their family. So I need to have a rapport built and I need to learn from that parent what they're comfortable with, what their household is like zero judgment.

Courtney Suddath (18:36):

I am not there to pass judgment. As long as the child is safe, then I'm there to support them in everything that they want for that child and that relationship has to continue. So like you said, the once a month, my schedule for my clients is different really based on that family and what they need and what kind of feedback they need. Yes, some parents are excited, some parents are nervous. I have some parents who come in, especially those that don't know about therapy, and they'll look at me and they'll be like, can you read my mind? And I'm like, thank goodness. No, I am not a mind reader and I'm actually not even analyzing you. That's another misconception about therapists. I'm not just analyzing people randomly. I'm here to help you solve problems based on the training and the experience that I have. And so come in no judgment.

Courtney Suddath (19:25):

If you tell me when my child does this, I completely lose it and I know why they're hitting because I hit things too or I know why they're screaming and saying things that are not necessarily appropriate for school because I do that too. Yeah, okay. We all have lost it. We all have things about our parenting style or our communication styles that we don't love. No judgment. Let's figure it out. Let's work on it. What I find to be so beneficial is when the parents come in and they can have honest sharing and feedback, and I can do the same. That first meeting's hard that I meet with the child, get to know them, build a rapport, and then we get back together again in that second meeting and on is what I love because it's more of like, oh, I've gotten to know your child and we can, yeah, I've seen this. They're like, oh, I know he does this. Or they'll describe something that happens during a time of conflict at home, getting out the door, doing homework, all of those things. And I'm like, oh, I could see that. I can actually see that in that child. And so we're able to have this relationship where we can collaboratively problem solve specific situations. And also they can get support if they can say, well, this, I've never been great at setting boundaries. Let's work on it. We can do that.

Meredith Krimmel (20:43):

It's great. When the family's involved with therapy, you might have these parents who didn't really even know they had these challenges until they had children. And the cracks began to show. So they've never had intervention or they've never been given strategies. So through the therapy, through their child, they can also learn how to help themselves at the same time as helping their child. And I've heard you say, do what works for you, what worked for your mom? Or what worked for your neighbor or the parent in your child's class? Just do what works for you. And I think that's great. I think a lot of times people don't know what works for them, so they're just reaching and grasping what worked for you.

Courtney Suddath (21:19):

It feels so overwhelming

Meredith Krimmel (21:21):

Rights, so many options.

Courtney Suddath (21:22):

And I think a lot of parents come to counseling at first feeling like they're carrying this big jumbled up mess and they feel insufficient because they cannot untangle it. How can you, I got help with my kids, other people come to me for help with their kids. That's what we have to do. And I think one of the other misconceptions about getting help is that you're going to go into an office and some professional is going to tell you everything you're doing wrong. That is not what should be happening. What should be happening is you coming and saying, here's my jumble up mess. I'm going to put on your coffee table. Is that okay? And then hopefully the therapist is going to say, absolutely put it wherever you like and we are going to take time to just pull that string. And by the end it's going to be mostly straight, not totally straight because life happens, but we're going to figure it out.

Courtney Suddath (22:15):

And sometimes parents realize in the midst of working with their children that they might want some help individually too by the same therapist or a different therapist. In my experience, it goes both ways. Sometimes we can deal with the family system and that helps the parent to gain those tools and feel better about the cracks as you called them, which we all have. Or sometimes they think, wow, I really should have gotten help for this when I was a kid. And a counselor, their child's therapist can see them also, if it's not a conflict of interest. And that's something you would talk about with your therapist or they would refer them to someone else. I think what I notice in the message I want people to see is that while it feels very daunting and overwhelming when you're in the midst of the problem with zero solutions, once you start to get help and unravel it, it's actually way easier than it seems. And you're left with thinking, wow, that was work, but it was so much easier than I thought. And now I actually am equipped with tools that I feel like I can move forward and just sort of feel like I know a little bit more about what I'm doing.

Stephanie Landis (23:24):

And something that you said before we started recording was that often parents will kind of focus in on the negative aspects of it instead of also the wonderful aspects of it.

Courtney Suddath (23:35):

For sure.

Stephanie Landis (23:35):

So when I was talking about like, oh no, raising my own daughter double, but you're right, there are some really great aspects. There's

Courtney Suddath (23:44):

Mostly

Stephanie Landis (23:44):

Great that go with it. And that I try and flip it and be like when she's super stubborn of being like, I'm so proud of her for knowing exactly what she wants. Here's a little tip

Courtney Suddath (23:54):

That I've noticed. It's those stubborn kids, those kids that know exactly what they want. Those are our future leaders people. I have one that I raised. They're leaders because they know. I remember telling my daughter, oh my gosh, she's probably going to listen to this. But I remember telling my daughter in high school, and it was true. I said, you are so strong and what you want and what you know want that peer pressure is not an excuse for you because I know that whatever choice you make, you think through thoroughly and you decide if it's worth it or not worth it. And that held true. She did not fall into peer pressure because she was able to look at people and say, that is not worth getting grounded over. Absolutely not doing it. So the children that are strong-willed as we like to call them, those are our future leaders.

Courtney Suddath (24:48):

So there's a positive twist for you. But I think too, yes, it's easy to look at our weaknesses as parents, as people, and see those in our children and get down about that and think, oh my gosh, this is going to be such a struggle for them. But I would say that the great things that we pass on to our children are often overlooked. You can be sitting with someone and they can be giving you feedback and they're going to tell you four great things and one thing that you need to work on, if you're like me, I'm going to remember the one thing I need to work on and think I'm a terrible person and I have no idea what I'm doing. So this is the same as in parenting. We're going to see our kids struggling with something that we struggle with, and that's going to be the thing we focus on. And I think it's important to, I am a firm believer in that we are equipped to raise our children. We are perfect for our children. That's why they were given to us, and we are the perfect fit. And yeah, there's going to be some struggles because no one's perfect, but we just get help. That's what we do.

Stephanie Landis (25:50):

So it sounds like what you're saying is that while we invited you on to give us a step-by-step how to help your child if they're struggling with things, there is no list, but what would your first step be?

Courtney Suddath (26:03):

Yeah, my first step would be like Meredith just said, take a deep breath and realize that you are not expected to be perfect. No one is expecting that. You might be expecting that of yourself, but take a deep breath and if you need help get help. It doesn't have to be a huge, massive problem where all the wheels are falling off to get help. It can be, you can go in and say, I am at my wit's end. I've tried everything we are at, we are at critical phase right now, and you can get help for that. You can also get help if just getting out the door in the morning is hard. But I think give yourself a break. Realize none of us really knew what we were doing when we had children. Talk to someone who is experienced and trained to help you and then make the list with them.

Courtney Suddath (26:53):

So while I can't give you a list today, a list will be made, but it can't, everyone's different. And so I could give you the list that worked for me, but it's probably not going to work for you. And in sitting with someone who can help you to talk about your family and what works for your family and how your family, what your family values are, what your generational values are, what your cultural values are, all of those are specific to that list that you're going to make of what do I do now? There is a list, but you have to make it with someone. I hope that takes some stress off of people too, because they're like, I'm not doing it. Who said, let's find the things that you are doing that are working and do more of those and eliminate the others.

Meredith Krimmel (27:41):

Yeah,

Courtney Suddath (27:41):

It's a grace-filled process. I hope.

Meredith Krimmel (27:43):

What's really sticking with me is when you said, what if you went into work and somebody told you to go through your day without your calendar, your list? And I thought, I know there's a lot of adults out there who are maybe trying to figure out what works for them, but once you figure out what works for you, trying to figure out a way to make it developmentally appropriate for your children, I would hate to go through my day without the support of all the strategies that I've used. So I think, okay, yeah, picture schedule, it's like makes so much sense for a kid who's struggling. So I definitely just wanted to bring that back up as a really great strategy of trying to alter what works for you in a way that's more appropriate for your children. Yeah,

Courtney Suddath (28:21):

Absolutely. And I think lists, I'm a huge list maker. It really does help. I have a lot of teens who struggle with that. And we're in the age of phones, like it or not, here we are, here we are folks. Everybody has phones. And so that's an age appropriate way that is an appropriate use of a phone. And so having them utilize their notes pages or having them utilize their list pages, their alarms, helping kids with executive functioning difficulties, those are also things that adults would use. So those would definitely be in the bag of tricks that you learn.

Stephanie Landis (29:01):

The hard part is when it's more the emotional coping and you're like, oh, well, I just eat or shop or cry. It's not like, okay, kids, now we do our online shopping

Courtney Suddath (29:13):

And now it's

Stephanie Landis (29:14):

Time to

Courtney Suddath (29:14):

Scroll Instagram until you disassociate, until it's time for bed. And that for sure. And I think we have to as parents definitely set aside time for ourselves to check out and we need to invite our children to do that too. I often recommend to clients schedule some downtime, schedule that time. Every moment of a child's day does not need to be educational. We of course don't want to give them unhindered access to all of the dangers that are on social media and television, et cetera, of course, but schedule some downtime. One of the things I see with young adults that I work with is they don't know how to check out. We have to teach our children when it's time to do nothing. You have the next 30 minutes and I hope that you will just do something that is fun, whatever you want to do, whatever you want to do.

Courtney Suddath (30:07):

It teaches them how to entertain themselves. It teaches them boundaries of what we can do during that time. Mom needs a little time, my sister needs a little time. This is time on our own. And that translates to young adults who also know not to take their work home and can take a breath and enjoy life. And we talked earlier about controlling our environment and how that's really the greatest need that we have other than wanting to be loved, but we want to control our environment and teaching our children, giving them some control of the environment that we're okay with. I learned this at the parish school years and years ago when I started here, was giving children two choices, both of which you are fine with. Do you want to go to bed right now or do you want to go to bed in two minutes?

Courtney Suddath (31:02):

Well, of course, two minutes, I'm totally fine with two minutes. They think they just pulled one over on me. So if that makes your life easier and gives them more control of their environment, do we really care if they use the blue cup or the red cup? Not really. So just let 'em pick. So just like we control our environment, I really like to park in a certain place at work because it just feels easier for me. I really like my items to be organized in a certain way, helps my day go better. Really like my favorite coffee cup to be clean in the morning when I'm going to walk out the door. Kids are the same way. So a lot of times adjusting our environment and controlling our environment is easy for adults, but hard for children. So one thing we can do to get on their level, like you said, their developmental level is to look at what are things that I'm okay with them controlling about their environment that will help them feel better.

Courtney Suddath (31:59):

They have more control. The schedule I think is hands down the best thing. The caveat to that is we do have to teach them about when unexpected changes happen. Oh, that was unexpected. Now we have to change our brains and change our schedule. But for the most part, we can keep things sort of in an order. I do not recommend putting times. I do recommend putting order on our schedule at school. They will usually have times. But helping kids with that, I think finding ways that they can control their environment will reduce that anxiety. And it's the step before having a list for your

Stephanie Landis (32:35):

Day. This is slightly off topic, but as you were talking about things that adults feel like they have control, it's like having a toddler makes you completely out of control. So sometimes it's the things that our kids need is that bit of them having control over their time is an exact opposition of what we need to need is that we need them to not have control so that we can have control. And to me, that also seems like an area that is like, well, we're both struggling with the need for control. And so this is going to be real hard, very hard because balancing helping them is going to

Courtney Suddath (33:09):

Well, and it's a fine so hard. It's a fine line because I want to also be very clear that I'm the parent. I am in charge and I am the adult in charge. I am here to keep you safe. And it's my job to make sure things go the way that they're supposed to go. So balancing that as an adult can be a real challenge in walking that line of being the adult in charge, not letting our children have complete control because then there's problems with that too. That's not at all what I am suggesting,

Courtney Suddath (33:42):

But helping them realize that you do have control over some things. And so what I find the biggest pitfalls at home, not at school, but at home, is when there are behaviors where there's sort of that power struggle of like, well, I need to be in control of the situation struggling right now, and they want to be in control of the situation, but me giving them control of the situation means I might not be okay, is actually adding structure. And that's hard if we're struggling with executive functioning and organization as it is. But oftentimes I will sit down with parents and we'll actually plan out their unstructured time. That sounds like an oxymoron, but it is really important because I think that they feel more control over the environment when we can say, Hey, this is unstructured time where they're running around the backyard. How can you make the backyard a place where you don't feel like you have to exert control in as much?

Courtney Suddath (34:40):

What toys do we need to put away that you don't feel like you want to deal with? When can they have that time of the water hose, finger paints, and sand all at the same time? That's my nightmare. So they send them to play therapy when they get to do all of that. It's not my nightmare with other people's children just with mine and my house. So finding those times that can be unstructured, but it's a structure for you. It's very daunting for someone, anyone who has organizational difficulties or don't, to wake up on a Saturday and be like, what actually are we going to do all day? Make a plan. Even if it's not something that you completely share with them, have structure in your mind, schedule it, say this is what we're doing from this time to this time and is at this time and rest time is at this time because that really will help with you feeling more in control, but appearing to them as this really fun off the cuff mom.

Stephanie Landis (35:38):

Yeah, I'm thinking of times when that's been myself and one of my closest friends. She feels the most at peace when things are clean and structured and organized. And as soon as it goes sideways with the messy play, it's like, ah, that's

Meredith Krimmel (35:54):

Not relatable at all.

Stephanie Landis (35:56):

I can feel and see her get tense. And so I'm like, oh, that's the deposition of the kids are like, oh, I'm craving this time. And you're like, okay, but there's a timer on it because then I need to get everything back to it being nice and clean and organized because that comes easily to her. But then she likes it to stay that way.

Courtney Suddath (36:15):

And it's really finding a balance of both. And that's sometimes an eye roll moment as a parent. It's like we just have to find balance, but we really do. We really do. We have to find a balance of time for ourselves teaching our children to find time for themselves. They do not need to be entertained every moment. And I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves as parents to feel like we have to schedule every part of the day and that we have to have some educational experience for them every part of the day. And I once heard a mom say to me, well, I showed my frustration to my child, and I know I'm not supposed to do that. And I'm like, who told you that? They need to see these things? It's okay if they know. Well, mom gets pretty nervous when we start getting the paints and the sand out. That's okay, but still let them do it right. Find a way that you can help them find the mess and the organization and the rest time and all of that. That again, we're raising little humans.

Stephanie Landis (37:15):

And then there's the flip side to it of the like, oh, I am completely fine with disorganization and the free play. And then the child is like, oh, I cannot handle the disorganization and the free play. So it's also interesting with not only when children struggle with things that are the same, but also when they have the opposites very different.

Courtney Suddath (37:37):

And again, it's finding that balance and helping all things be okay in the right time.

Stephanie Landis (37:44):

And I say my friend gets anxious, but I also hit my point of like, okay, this is too much. Too much. Yeah.

Meredith Krimmel (37:51):

My family's favorite joke is that, oh, hey, we brought home slime. They know slime is not allowed in my house. Yay. Glitter in mine. Oh, I don't have

Courtney Suddath (37:58):

Glitter either.

Stephanie Landis (37:58):

In the classroom too, one of my paraeducators, Melinda would be like, oh, good. Stephanie's gone. We can bring out the glitter.

Courtney Suddath (38:05):

Yes, I can relate to the glare. There was once that, I actually went to the bathroom by myself when my children were very young before school aged, and I was like, oh, I can finally, I've reached the stage where I can just go into the bathroom by myself for two minutes and then all of a sudden I hear water splashing. And I was like, that should not be happening inside. And I hurried and I went out and they had pulled the garden hose in. They were allowed to be playing outside. It was two minutes. They pulled the garden hose into the kitchen.

Meredith Krimmel (38:40):

Oh gosh,

Courtney Suddath (38:41):

Mom, we're cleaning the tile for you. So this was a combination of, I know mom loves clean tile also. How fun to bring the water hose inside and

Stephanie Landis (38:55):

We can't see the end mess because we don't have that life experience.

Courtney Suddath (38:59):

There's hard wood on the other side of that tile. So I in that moment, had to use the skills that I teach other people and say, okay, it's going to be okay. It's really going to be okay. I can freak out right now and kill this child's spirit, which is what I feel like doing is freaking out. Or we can just roll with it. So there was a balance. Hey guys, water hoses are for outside now. We all get to clean up the water together. But thank you for cleaning the floor.

Stephanie Landis (39:30):

That's so nice of you because I'm pretty sure steam cartoon coming, cartoon

Meredith Krimmel (39:35):

Explosion,

Stephanie Landis (39:36):

All of those scenes. Scenes where I'm just like,

Courtney Suddath (39:38):

Ooh, it took

Stephanie Landis (39:39):

A minute. Yeah, it took a minute. Well, thank you so much. I'm sure we could continue picking your brain for hours and then get even more personal about our own. Now give us our

Courtney Suddath (39:50):

Step by step plan. I am ready and willing anytime. It's such a great joy to be back at the parish school.

Stephanie Landis (39:56):

We appreciate

Courtney Suddath (39:57):

You. This is where I got my start, and so it always has a really special place in my heart.

Meredith Krimmel (40:06):

Thank you for listening to the UN Babbled podcast. For more information on today's episode, please see our episode description. For more information on the parish school, visit parish school.org. If you're not already, don't forget to subscribe to the UnBabbled Podcast on your app of choice. And if you like what you're hearing, be sure to leave a rating and review. A special thank you to Joanna Rissmiller and Mackey Torres for all their hard work behind the scenes. Thanks again for listening.