Unbabbled
Unbabbled
Eloping: What is it and How Can We Address it? with Dr. Natalie Montfort | Season 7 Episode 6
In this episode Dr. Natalie Montfort, PhD discusses eloping. She shares what it means for a child to elope or wander and where and when it can happen. She also answers questions about which children are most at risk of eloping and ways families and caregivers can prepare themselves. Throughout this conversation Dr. Montfort provides research-based information for families aimed at empowering, not worrying.
Dr. Natalie Montfort, PhD, works at Montfort Psychology Associates in Houston, Texas. She earned her Doctor of Philosophy Degree in Clinical Psychology from Fielding Graduate University, completed her doctoral internship at the UTHealth Science Center and completed her post-doctoral fellowship at The Stewart Center. Dr. Montfort has worked with children and adults with ASD since 2002. She has experience in a variety of training including Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (with children, adolescents, and adults), Trauma-Focused Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Relationship Development Intervention, Social Thinking and education/educational assessment. Her areas of interest include assessment of children, adolescents and adults; cognitive and behavioral differences in children with neurodevelopmental disorders; treatment of adoption-related issues; treatment of childhood trauma; and animal-assisted therapy.
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Stephanie Landis (00:06):
Hello and welcome to UnBabbled, a podcast that navigates the world of special education, communication, delays and learning differences. We are your host, Stephanie Landis and Meredith Krimmel, and we're certified speech language pathologist who spend our days at the parish school in Houston helping children find their voices and connect with the world around them. Gateway Academy is a unique school in Houston, Texas, serving sixth through 12th grade students with academic and social challenges. Gateway's committed to teaching traditional academics while also meeting the social and emotional needs of their students with learning and social differences. Over the last 15 years, their work has been to provide students with opportunities for identity exploration, learning self-awareness, and practicing self-advocacy, opening a path to personal significance in college, career and community. For more information, visit their website at www.thegatewayacademy.org. In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Natalie Montfort to discuss childhood eloping. Dr. Montfort works at Montfort Psychology Associates in Houston, Texas. She has her PhD in clinical psychology with expertise in a variety of trainings including cognitive behavioral therapy, relationship development, intervention, social thinking, and educational assessment. In this episode, Dr. Monfort shares what it means for a child to elope or wander and where or when it can happen. She also answers questions about which children are most at risk of eloping, and we as families and caregivers can prepare themselves. Throughout this conversation, Dr. Montfort provides research-based information for families aimed at empowering, not worrying.
(01:50):
Hello, welcome. On today's episode, we have Dr. Natalie Montfort, who is a licensed clinical psychologist, and she's here to talk about a topic that is near and dear to many of our hearts, which is children eloping. And if you don't know what eloping is, you'll know all about it by the end of this. But I just want to start by welcoming you and thanking you for being here, chatting with us.
Natalie Montfort (02:11):
Thanks for having me.
Stephanie Landis (02:13):
So let's start off with that big question. What is
Natalie Montfort (02:15):
Eloping? That is a good question. It sounds like this scary thing that nobody does or what is it really? But it's a very simple definition. It means leaving a safe space without telling or notifying the adult responsible. So safe space could be families out at the park, could be the home, might be school anywhere that the child or individual is supposed to be. And then they go without letting anyone know.
Stephanie Landis (02:47):
And I think of eloping and a child leaving a safe space, and that can be any child at anywhere. I know that when I'm going through parenting online, there's little tips for like, oh, when you're taking your kid to Disney. And I think sometimes we think of big places like that being the only place where a kid might wander away or other times. But it can be really anywhere as you've stated.
Natalie Montfort (03:16):
It can. It can. And I think for the big places like Disney or Vacations, the mall, we tend to be more vigilant as adults because we know it can happen there. We know it can happen to anyone there that a child could get lost and getting lost is different than eloping or wandering. Those. Eloping and wandering are the same thing, but getting lost can happen to anyone anywhere. So we tend to be more alert and more on guard in those environments. And where I find the most surprising cases for families are usually where they least expected it. So out of the backyard between the house and the car or out of the house, even in the evening while getting ready for bed or something along those lines, you're
Stephanie Landis (04:00):
Putting groceries away and your kid was just there in the front room or playing in basketball in the front yard and you go back out to get the next round of groceries and they're not there.
Natalie Montfort (04:11):
That's right. I had one of the first cases that I ever encountered was a family that was just like that. They were playing in the backyard as they often did. And the parent turned around to pick up their water, put their back to the children for just a moment to pick up their water, took a sip, put it back down, turned around and the child was gone from the fenced in backyard. All the gates were still closed, no kid to be found. So their fences were built where they weren't climbable from the inside they thought, but the child liked to climb and had climb fence. But where do you start? Do you go left? Do you go right? Do you go to the house behind you? Where do you even start looking? So if families aren't prepared, wandering can be terrifying and rightfully so, it can be tragic as well.
Stephanie Landis (05:06):
And I know that this topic, we're hoping that this topic kind of makes parents aware and empowered instead of just adding more stress and terrifying parents into being worried. But it's one of those things where if you don't know that it's a possibility, you can't make a plan for it. And then you get more surprised to me, if I know something's a possibility, then I can make a plan and feel a little bit better about it. So hopefully parents while they're listening or caregivers use this information to feel more empowered than stressed. But with that, who do you find is more at risk of elopement?
Natalie Montfort (05:43):
Yeah, that's right. So we definitely want to help people prepare and elopement and wandering could happen to anyone, but we do have some research to help us know who's at highest risk. And that just helps us better prepare, like you said, to know that this could happen. So when we have looked at studies that talk to families who have a child with special needs, it does seem to be that anyone with special needs with an intellectual or learning disability is at risk of wandering autism spectrum disorder communication impairments. But it does seem to be that children with autism are most likely to elope out of that group. And about half of parents report that the child with autism tried to wander or elope at least one time after they were four years old. So typically in development, we think of wandering as something that kind of happens in toddlerhood.
(06:42):
Hold my hand in the parking lot, don't go too far away from me when we're at the park, make sure you can hear me or see me or things. We're always telling toddlers. So that's about the age where we might expect the behavior Once somebody hits about four years old in typical development, we no longer expect that behavior. But of course when we're talking about developmental differences, different people are on different trajectories, different children have different strengths and challenges and it doesn't really seem to be tied to parenting. So this is an important piece too, because many parents will feel really guilty if something like this happens. But in that study that I was telling you about with about 50% of parents saying their child over four had tried to wander at least once, the typically developing sibling had not tried to wander at near that rate. So we know that this isn't just a parenting issue.
Meredith Krimmel (07:41):
You mentioned that under four we kind of expect or prepare for it because we know children under four don't have the same life experience or don't understand danger. But these children who are over four with these developmental differences, what kinds of reasons do you find that these kids are eloping? Why are they laundering?
Natalie Montfort (08:00):
That's a good question. So we turned to parents to get that answer in the research and there's been a study that talked about the five top motivators described by parents when their individual or young person elopes. And so number one is just that they enjoy exploring. So we have somebody that maybe in a new space or familiar space just likes to move around, wants to be active and see new things. The next biggest reason is that they're heading for a favorite place or a desired place. So I've had individuals who have gone to the pool or basketball practice or target, and oftentimes they know the right way to go. So if it's safe to go with the family, why isn't it safe to go on their own? Can be their thinking. Sometimes it's not as thoughtful as that.
Stephanie Landis (08:49):
And mom and dad said that they would take me. They're taking too long. I'm ready to go. I'm just going to go
Natalie Montfort (08:55):
Absolutely. Even leaving the grocery store, I'm tired of shopping. It's close to home. I know the way, see you later. And oftentimes the child is surprised they've done something wrong. Other reasons are to escape demands. So to leave a place where they have to do a chore, a task or homework, something like that to pursue a special interest. And oftentimes this can be water, so that's one we have to be really, really aware of or to even escape some sensory discomfort. So this environment's too loud, too chaotic. I'm going to go find a quiet place and didn't tell anybody on the way out.
Stephanie Landis (09:36):
Yeah, that one is one that I have a friend who's their child. That's their biggest thing that they found that he will wander off as soon as he starts to getting socially sensory, overwhelmed. And so they've been able to, after they figured that out, he has language and that he could explain. And he was like, it got really loud. I wanted to go over here or next door. We were at the neighbor's house, it was too loud. I wanted to go home. And so he just walk home. So then they started bringing ear defenders and finding a place wherever they went to the new house of like, this is where you can go that's quiet or making a plan ahead of time. So I think it's great that if you can know your child's maybe triggers or things that they like to do that, that might help you have a plan in place to try and decrease maybe some of the elopement.
Meredith Krimmel (10:28):
Well, and it's something we all relate to. When I'm overstimulated or I'm bored, I want to go home too. But I think about my own child, he's 10 and when we're at the grocery store and he is like, I'm done. I want to go. Can I just walk home? I'm like, no, you can't. But we have the conversation. So the difference there is the kiddos who don't either have the language to have that conversation or don't think that they need to have that conversation and they just want to get out of that environment. But I mean we can all relate to that for sure.
Natalie Montfort (10:59):
Absolutely. And I'll send you some information that you can share or host because like you mentioned, making a plan. I love that there are a couple of good resources available. One is from the National Autism Association and it's the be ready booklets. So they have them for parents, for teachers, for professionals in the community. And I think it's important if you have a child with special needs, even if you're aware of this information, if your child doesn't attend the parish school, the teachers may not know. So you might have to educate the teachers, the school, your neighbors, the community. A lot of these resources will even suggest reaching out to the local police station or constable's office with a picture of your child and saying, there's a child with a disability who lives here. And those things can be really helpful prevention, even letting neighbors know so that they know to approach.
(11:57):
Sometimes if someone calls out to a child wandering, if they look old enough to be out and about on their own, they may not respond. And so the neighbors might think, oh, okay, well everybody knows where he is. They're doing what they're supposed to do. Yeah, right. So there's not really a time or a place that this occurs most often, but there are some places that kids tend to go. And so one, like we mentioned is water, which is hugely scary for me. So terrifying. Yeah, it is. Especially that we now have all these neighborhoods with ponds and lakes in the middle of them. So I see stories online about people seeing a kid or even a young adult going into the water, especially with this hot summers that we've been having. Swimming makes sense and if I can swim in a pool or a lake on a vacation, why can't I swim in that one?
(12:53):
So it's important that people are aware and vigilant and if someone does go missing and they have autism or another developmental disability, it's really important to check the body's water first because that's where tragedy can strike. And in a lot of these cases of wandering, there are near tragic experiences that occur. So unfortunately when these do end in death, drowning is the number one cause hit by car is number two. So it's very, very important to find them quickly and never assume. Let's just do a little looking around on our own call the authorities alert everyone and get out there and find the child fast.
Stephanie Landis (13:39):
You mentioned people being in big areas, so they already have a plan and they're feeling more alert, whereas they're at home, they're a little more relaxed. I also tend to think that parents are using more and more tracking technology like error tags or other things on their kids. Do you think that that is an area where it is highly beneficial or do you think it's something that is beneficial but also might give a false sense of security? What do you advise on parents who are like, okay, well I can give my kid an air tag and then I'll always know where they are. Right.
Natalie Montfort (14:18):
Important considerations. I think it depends on the child and the family. And I always defer to parents because they know their children best is to what might work for them. I do recommend emergency alert bracelets or contact information that's visible and on the child because even a highly verbal child in a time of stress might not respond to basic questions about why are you here? What are you doing?
Stephanie Landis (14:47):
Where are your parents? I know I've specifically taught the kids in our classroom of like if a stranger approaches, don't tell them what you're doing
Natalie Montfort (14:52):
Exactly.
Stephanie Landis (14:53):
Don't tell them where you live. Do not give them your phone number. Stranger
Natalie Montfort (14:57):
Danger. And so when we have those conflicting or competing rules, it can be really hard for kids to process. And we're also often talking about children who have a processing speed delay. So there's all this new information, there's new people or faces or there's not, and there should be, and what are they supposed to do? They often will make choices that may differ from what we would think, but I find many of the children who are verbal are able to explain what they were thinking and it kind of makes sense. It's not always the best choice or the right choice, but you can see where they're coming from when they tell you about why they left or what they were thinking. I assume also for our less verbal children that they also have a reason. They just may not be able to express it to me in a way I can understand, but they probably have a reason and a thought process that's equally valid.
(15:53):
So if we can help others recognize this is a child that's got a delay, here's some contact information that can be helpful. I've seen tags that go on the shoe laces for children that don't tolerate the jewelry like the bracelet or the necklace. Air tags are a great idea as well as there's some other forms of tracking. Angel Sense is a big one. Those are nice angel sense, especially you can talk to the child and tell the child what to do in a familiar voice that they might respond to. The problem that I've seen with these products, including the air tag, is sometimes kids leave without them or if they're going to water, they take off What's on that has the tag. Now it still may get you close, but in those situations where people leave because they're overstimulated or it's the middle of the night and they have a craving for their favorite fast food place, they might not have on the shoes with the air tag. So it can, like you said, sort of provide a false sense of security. I think it's an important tool to have in the toolbox, but it's just that it's one tool
(17:05):
In the toolbox. There's also limitations to different methods of tracking, and I know this from my cats, so I have a cat that wanders and he has a GPS tracker, but GPS isn't super precise,
(17:21):
So he's got to be far enough away from the house that it gets me close enough to him. We do joke because I also have a 20-year-old son on the spectrum who used to wear a tracker because he eloped from situations of high stress and demand, and that was our biggest limiting factor is he would leave without glasses, without shoes, without food when he felt threatened. So we joke that as he's matured and as more able to handle situations and communicate that now the cat has the tracker because anybody in our house who needs to be safe is going to
Meredith Krimmel (17:58):
Be safe. So you talked about using a variety of tools like the tracker. What are some other tools that you would recommend to parents who have a child who either has a history of wondering or maybe is at risk of
Natalie Montfort (18:10):
Wondering or eloping? There's some neat ideas in the toolkits I was telling you about, but now with the internet you can get all kinds of great things. So some creative ones I've seen are temporary tattoos with parent phone number or information, and those can be really nice for children who have high sensory intolerances to anything on their body or who are quick to shed their clothing
(18:39):
Because that will always be there and stay with them. Of course, you have to reapply just like any temporary tattoo, but I've seen those, even families enjoy using them on vacation with the whole family. Paper bracelets you might get at a concert could be printed and those silicone bracelets that a lot of people wear because they're in style, a lot of kids like 'em and bright colors, those can be purchased and custom made to have name and phone number or information and alert. I've even seen some that have a QR code where you can scan them and have more detailed information about the individual. Those are usually like a health alert tag.
Stephanie Landis (19:23):
Interesting. Before we started recording, you mentioned things about nighttime. Are there things that parents can do at night to then help maybe? I think you mentioned special doorknobs or other things.
Natalie Montfort (19:35):
Absolutely. And within the home, so there's about a $50 door knob on Amazon. A couple of different brands are made that's a keypad. They have biometric ones that are fingerprints, and that is just a fantastic investment because the door still opens. You're not creating any problem for the fire department who can knock the doorknob off if needed, but it is a barrier. It also can be set to beep when the buttons are pushed so it can alert parents that the child is trying to go through the door. I do have some families where you to, they say they have to cover the code up because the child's really good with numbers and can easily just watch the code. So that would be something
Stephanie Landis (20:20):
Kids are something. Kids are much smarter than we are.
Natalie Montfort (20:21):
That's true.
Meredith Krimmel (20:21):
I tell you, these kids, they know parents' phone, passwords, email, password, and you don't even know they're watching. They're so sneaky.
Natalie Montfort (20:27):
Exactly. I had a child once who had the parents' credit card number and was able to order things online just from seeing it in the store. It happens. Yeah. Yeah. There's also a bed, or probably several different models, but one of them is even available for children who have Medicaid. So if they have that related to their disability condition, I think it's called the cubby, that parents can go online and it just gives that peace of mind that they're asleep and staying in the room. I found the most product help before this was such a talked about topic in the area of Alzheimer's. So if you search for Alzheimer's products, there's things that are used in a nursing home situation that alert staff if someone gets out of bed. So there's a bed pad that you can get, and once pressure's taken off the pad and alarm rings, so the alarm could be in the parent's room, the bed pad on the child's bed, and the parent would be notified when the child's out of bed.
(21:31):
I've personally used a lot of the nursing home grade products that I'm talking about, and they're successes intermittent at best. But if you have a couple of these lines of defense, and again, that's not something I'd recommend for every parent to have a bed pad, but if you have a child that gets up and is at risk of hurting themselves or wandering away at night, it can be just a real game changer for parental sleep and safety. So there's motion detectors, pads that could be in a hallway that when stepped on, they alert and it is still unfortunately really difficult to find a lot of these products or to get support in how to use them. And part of that I think is the stigma that's like, well, that's an
Stephanie Landis (22:22):
Overbearing
Natalie Montfort (22:24):
Parent or person, but if there's a child who has wandered or shows a lot of interest in wandering or has had some close calls, these could potentially be lifesaving
Stephanie Landis (22:37):
And for parents or family members and they're thinking about having these conversations with their children. As you've said, a lot of times these kids have logic in their brain and so it's kind of hard as parents to front load or figure out when this might happen. But are there certain things that you recommend for parents to start these conversations with their kids about either water safety or safety or rules around leaving the house or environments that they're in that might also help detour some of this?
Natalie Montfort (23:16):
Absolutely. Number one is water safety lessons, which are different than swim lessons. So for everybody, whether you can have the conversation with the child or not, water safety is important. Being able to get out of the water when you're fully clothed in your socks and shoes is just a different experience, especially from a sensory perspective than is swimming. So that's a big one. Most local YMCAs will have a water safety course and there's other things that go on. So once you have the prevention in place, definitely I like to use modeling, so talking aloud about I'm going to go here, and so I'm telling the rest of the family so they're aware where I am. It's important that keeps me safe. That keeps the rest of the family feeling comfortable. So a lot of those, even communication styles can be helpful. I've heard of many instances where the child thinks they've communicated that they're leaving, but the message wasn't received. So either they said something in an indirect or an odd way or they didn't have the listener's attention. Like I told you I wanted to go home and the parents, well, but I didn't think that meant by any stretch of the imagination that you were leaving.
Stephanie Landis (24:33):
So we often are like, I'm bored. I wish I could go home or I want to go home right now. It doesn't mean you were actually leaving the boring
Natalie Montfort (24:41):
Meeting. Absolutely. So making sure that kids are getting intervention, speech therapy, social skills training that they're recognizing, oh, the listener didn't hear you or you didn't have their attention. So then directly talking about the situation, if you ever want to leave, remember you have to tell the responsible adult, the adult in charge, you have to let them know that you're leaving and they have to say, okay, or they have to communicate back to you that they understand because sometimes things we take for granted and conversation have to be explicitly taught.
Stephanie Landis (25:19):
That's a good idea to do some role playing of like, oh, you have this idea. You want to leave the party right now or the grocery store, or you want to go get some Chick-fil-A down the street. Let's role play. And sometimes I might say, yes, let's go. And sometimes I might say no and to practice it. And you're right, even in the classroom, a lot of times kids will be talking and I'm like, who are you talking to? And they're like The teacher. And I'm like, the teacher's over there with their back to you talking to somebody else. Do they hear you? And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, okay, well, these are clues and we have to directly teach. These are clues that a person can hear you that they know what your plan is. And so it is something that often is directly taught to our kids with a variety of language or learning or a DHD or autism that we take for granted in typical conversation between us that we already, our brains are searching for those clues that somebody is listening to us or has heard us or has understood us and they are misreading or just not looking for the same clues.
Natalie Montfort (26:23):
Right? Right. Yeah. That difference in executive functioning is definitely apparent, and I think really that's the kids we're talking about too who are at the most risk. So they get an impulsive idea, they're not able to think through the consequences. They're not able to slow down and see was my message received? Did I send message? Did I just think I sent a message? Did I not even think about sending a message? That's definitely the population that we're talking about and is at risk, and I think something that's real important for parents is to realize every family I've interacted with that this has happened to, they all felt like that would never be my child. There are very few families that where we were so prepared and this still happened, it's usually almost out of the blue, like a one time thing that occurred and then they become aware and then they put more steps in place. But I've had first time wandering happen in children that I'm aware of as young as two, I'm sure it could be younger, and then clients as old as 29 who got their own idea and went with it without letting anyone else know.
Meredith Krimmel (27:34):
It's helpful to talk about who might be at risk for this because even if your child has never done anything that would indicate that they might be a wanderer or a eloper, but maybe your child is impulsive and maybe your child frequently miscommunicate their ideas to you, now you might be thinking, okay, my kid's never wandered, but those are signs that maybe it could happen in the certain circumstance.
Stephanie Landis (27:56):
And going back through and having those conversations and explicitly teaching what we call here hidden rules of this is what you explicitly need to do and let's go through and role play it. If you have the idea if you're hot and you need to leave, if you're overstimulated, here is how we do it, I think is beneficial for all kids.
Natalie Montfort (28:14):
Right. There were some best practices about wandering that were released and that are, it sounds like used even at the parish school with having a response plan, prevention, direct education, all of these things are super important. Now, many of the parents are surprised to find that after an episode of wandering, and again, it's always important to call the authorities. You need as many people as quickly as possible to locate the child, never assume they're inside the house and hiding. If you've done a quick pass, always call quickly, but that will often prompt a visit from Child protective Services. So if we know a child has the risk of wandering, there are things that can be done to help protect the family. Again, this is not neglectful parenting, this is not bad parenting or parent's fault in any situation or case when it is truly wandering associated with the developmental differences, there's actually a diagnosis code for that. Interesting. Yeah.
Meredith Krimmel (29:27):
How would a family go about getting that diagnostic code from a developmental evaluation?
Natalie Montfort (29:32):
Right, or just talking to the provider that they have mental health provider, developmental provider that they have. Could it be pediatrician, possibly even the pediatrician and saying, we're worried about this or we've prepared for this, or we had a close call or a scary incident. I then want that in the child's case history because it can also show if this occurs. Again, we don't want that to look like a pattern of neglectful parenting, but instead a pattern of behavior that is typical or becoming typical of this child. So that can really help protect families. I've written letters when I do have clients who wander more than once or they wander and we think it could happen again, where the parent can just have with them a letter that says, we know that this child is at risk because of the conditions that they have, and that can be real helpful for just smoothing things over. The last thing a family needs after something scary has happened is somebody to say, well, were you being a good parent? And again, the point is the safety of the children, and that's very important because in the cases where that is responsible for what's going on, we need them to intervene. But when this happens as a consequence of a developmental difference, it can often be kind of an open and shut case if we've got providers that are knowledgeable too.
Stephanie Landis (31:01):
And I'm thinking about it as you said earlier, of talking to neighbors, and I know that when you talk to neighbors or family or friends, that it's a difficult conversation to have about your child's difficulties. And it might be uncomfortable to be like, Hey, neighbor, I see you every once in a while depending on how close you are with your neighbors. Here is something personal about my child. But that also to me seems like if you are telling neighbors again, they are less likely to very quickly call CPS if they see that your child happened to get out and you got them really quickly. Or it just to me also builds a community that can also then be there to support you and help be on the lookout for your kid. And it just seems like it's building a bigger community. Would that also help with that?
Natalie Montfort (31:54):
Absolutely. The more prevention the better. Even just letting neighbors know this is our family in it. Little Johnny does not play outside alone. That's not what we do in our family on this street. If you ever happen to see little Johnny playing outside alone, here's my phone number or here's what you can do, invite him to talk about dinosaurs or something that's a special interest and call me so that we can make sure we know where
Stephanie Landis (32:24):
He is. And I love that tip about giving them a way to engage. As we said, you don't want to just walk up to a kid and be like, where's your mom? What are you doing? They might not respond. They might shut down. And that's such a great tip of having them talk about this because that'll engage them in conversation and instead of just running away or shutting
Natalie Montfort (32:44):
Down, hopefully, and especially if it's a familiar face like a neighbor, so we all got those neighbors that are retired and stay home and watch the street and know who's doing what. Those could be good ones to alert. That was my favorite neighbor to have. Any other strategies that we haven't hit on so far? There is one, and I think it's very important. Some families do this without thinking about it. Schools often do this without thinking about it, but to explicitly name the person who's responsible for supervision at any given time. So we call it like a tag your it. Oftentimes families with pools will do this, I'm watching the pool, but I need to go inside and have a break. You are now in charge of the pool, but doing that with the child as well, so who is supervising and letting the child know if you need something or you need to leave or you need help, this is summer camp, this is who you talk to, or now you're at school, you go to your teacher, now you're at home. So really identifying and making it clear who is the supervising
Stephanie Landis (33:47):
Adult so that your child doesn't walk past their dad and upstairs and through two closed bathroom doors to come find you. Not that that's happened to me before all the time. All the time, all the time. But I love that. I was reading a parenting account where she said that she does that at family events or pools or other things, especially at the beach because her husband was a pilot and that that's how they were like, you are in control. I'm stepping out. You're in control. I'm stepping out. And would tag team it and make sure there was a direct plan. Because you're right, sometimes when there are large groups of people, you just feel comfortable that somebody's watching your child. Surely
Meredith Krimmel (34:23):
I naturally do that because of my anxiety.
Stephanie Landis (34:26):
I'm
Meredith Krimmel (34:26):
Usually the one scanning. Well, I'm like, I'm not watching who's watching someone, I have to leave. Someone's watching. Right. Because you're right. I mean, not just for wanders and elopers, but a lot of cases of drownings around pool in general are when a group of adults are nearby, everyone just assumes that everyone else is watching
Stephanie Landis (34:44):
Scary. That's scary indeed. And they think, well, my kid knew better not to get in. This was so great and helpful. And again, hopefully parents don't leave more stressed, but armed with resources and ideas and can be more well prepared for this happening. And so I appreciate you giving this information. At the end of every podcast, we ask one question, and it can be related to this topic or just whatever is on your mind. If you had one piece of advice to give to the listeners, what would you give? We love putting people on the spot, or at least I love putting people on the spot.
Natalie Montfort (35:20):
I guess I would say my one piece of advice to parents would be that person that your kid can come to when they have questions or need help understanding the world. And not that it will prevent all cases of wandering or elopement, what we're talking about today, but it does set you up for success. Set your child up for success.
Meredith Krimmel (35:43):
I like that. Yeah, I like that. It's good for lots of different things, not just wandering and elopement. Well,
Stephanie Landis (35:48):
Thank you very much. I enjoyed speaking with you today and have learned a lot. Yeah.
Meredith Krimmel (35:52):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the UN Babbled Podcast. For more information on today's episode, please see our episode description. For more information on the parish school, visit parish school.org. If you're not already, don't forget to subscribe to the UN Babbled Podcast on your app of choice. And if you like what you're hearing, be sure to leave a rating and review. A special thank you to Joanna Rissmiller and Mackey Torres for all their hard work behind the scenes. Thanks again for listening.