Tips for Speaking with Loved Ones About Your Child with Josie Gardner | Season 7 Episode 7

In this episode we speak with mental health professional Josie Gardner about ways to navigate tricky conversations with loved ones regarding our child and their needs, diagnosis, challenges and strengths. Josie discusses the positives, and possible negatives, of directly naming and speaking about a diagnosis your child might have. She also gives tips and scripts to help you navigate those conversations while acknowledging they can be emotionally challenging for everyone. Josie’s tips will hopefully help parents feel empowered and secure in handling these tricky conversations. 

Josie Gardner is a Social Emotional Support Specialist at The Parish School in Houston, Texas. She is a licensed social worker, who earned her master’s degree in social work (MSW) from The University of Houston. Prior to being at The Parish School, Josie has experience working in childcare and afterschool care programs. She believes in extending patience and support to children as they learn and explore the world around them and is passionate about supporting families. 

Transcript

Stephanie Landis (00:06):

Hello and welcome to UnBabbled, a podcast that navigates the world of special education, communication, delays and learning differences. We are your host, Stephanie Landis and Meredith Krimmel, and we're certified speech language pathologist who spend our days at the Parish School in Houston helping children find their voices and connect with the world around them. Gateway Academy is a unique school in Houston, Texas, serving sixth through 12th grade students with academic and social challenges. Gateway's committed to teaching traditional academics while also meeting the social and emotional needs of their students with learning and social differences. Over the last 15 years, their work has been to provide students with opportunities for identity exploration, learning self-awareness, and practicing self-advocacy, opening a path to personal significance in college, career and community. For more information, visit their website at www.thegatewayacademy.org. We've all been there, a well-meaning friend or family member makes an offhand comment about our child that lives in our brains for weeks.

(01:09):

In this episode, we speak with mental health professional Josie Gardner about ways to navigate tricky conversations with loved ones about our child and their needs or diagnosis. Josie is a master's level social worker, an emotional support specialist at the Parish School in Houston, Texas. She works directly with children and families to provide the patients and support they need to learn and explore the world. Throughout this episode, she gives tips and scripts for speaking with family and friends about your child, while acknowledging that these conversations can be emotionally challenging for everyone. Hopefully you walk away feeling empowered and secure in handling these tricky conversations. Well, welcome. Today we're really excited to have a Parish School employee, Josie Gardner here. Welcome, Josie. Hi. Josie is a master's level social worker. Yeah, we just talked about it and I already messed it up, but with that title, what do you do here at the Parish School?

Josie Gardner (02:10):

So yeah, so at the Parish School, I am one of the mental health professionals. I am available to do both some short-term therapy with some play-based skills, and I also come into the classrooms to teach lessons about emotions and emotional regulation and then am available for whatever support kids are needing. If they're having big feelings, I can be there to help out,

Stephanie Landis (02:36):

Which is why here our kids just call you a feelings helper. Yes. And here, both here and in your previous places of work, you've worked closely with families. Yes, yes. Well, I don't know about you, but in my experience while I'm talking with parents, they often are navigating not just what's happening in their own home, but what happens both in their communities with friends and even with their families. And one of the things they'll talk about a lot is how do I talk to family members or friends about what is going on with my child? Do you get that? Yeah. Or do I even talk to them about it? Yes. Yes. So what are your first steps when you get a question like that from a family?

Josie Gardner (03:23):

Yeah, I think there's a lot to it. There's a lot to think about and that goes into that. Obviously every family is different, every child is different. So I have a few different tips that might be helpful, but before I get into that, I wanted to go over just some of the, what are the pros and cons of telling your family?

Stephanie Landis (03:45):

Perfect. I love that.

Josie Gardner (03:46):

So as far as what could happen if you don't tell a family one, they may not know how to best support your child. So you're probably going to be dealing with a lot of misinformation, a lot of misunderstandings or stigmas that come with that diagnosis. So that can be really challenging navigating that, especially if you don't know how or you never have, or you're just like, I don't want this person coming at me with

Stephanie Landis (04:20):

Judgments or information. Yes, I've gotten it so often that family members will be like, well, grandparents just think he's lazy, or Grandma says that he just needs to be disciplined more.

Meredith Krimmel (04:33):

Or I've talked to families who say, well, I don't want to tell people that my child has autism because they're going to come back with, well, it's what you're feeding or it's the hormones, or it's because you're not strict enough, or there's people who with all this misinformation out there who are going to come at them and people are worried about sharing that information.

Josie Gardner (04:50):

Yes. So yeah, if you share with your family, you open up that conversation. So that can be really hard. And then you also can't really control how they're going to react or respond. So again, you might have people that are saying all this thing or giving all of this advice or saying, oh, that's not real, or asking questions that you don't have answers for. There's just so much that comes with that, and so it can be really hard to navigate. I think also depending on a challenge that might come up or for not telling your family, it might be that, especially if your child already knows about their diagnosis, you don't want to unintentionally send the message that we don't want to talk about this thing. It's too uncomfortable. It's something you should be ashamed of. And so that's kind of the negative side of maybe,

Stephanie Landis (05:48):

And we have to hide a part of you from other people.

Josie Gardner (05:51):

So on the strengths or the pros side, if you do share with your family, you open up that door for people to support your child, and you also are able to model for your kid what it looks like to advocate for themselves and for their needs. And depending on their age, you might even invite them into that process with you. So letting them be able to share what helps them, letting them be able to share what their strengths are or tell their family about what they've learned about themselves can be a really beautiful process depending on your child and their development and knowledge.

Stephanie Landis (06:31):

I love that. I never really thought about it that way, is that you're also modeling self-advocacy for your kids. If you're like, Hey, I have some sensory processing things, it gets really loud for me. If I get overwhelmed, I'm going to leave. Otherwise, if you don't tell them what's going on, they're still going to see that this happens and then they might not know why. And like you said, attribute it to things that are negative or a judgment or other things, but you're showing the kids how to be like, Hey, this is a part of me and here's what I need from you as a family member. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Other things that I was thinking that might be a benefit on top of that is that they might find that other people in their friend community or even family have dealt with the same difficulties.

Josie Gardner (07:19):

I think it can be a really great space. They may respond negatively, but sometimes they respond really positively. And like you said, they may have experience with that. Maybe a family member of theirs or someone they know or one of their friend's kids, all those things can be an opportunity to share that experience and connect.

Meredith Krimmel (07:41):

It's amazing when people start sharing, you start finding how many things a lot of families are going through or experiencing. If you don't share your experience, no one else is going to share theirs and you won't know that maybe you're both struggling with some of the same things at home, like bedtime or picky eating or any of those kinds of things. And when you start talking about it, you find that a lot of people experience similarities and challenges and strengths in their homes. So it can be such a great sense of bonding and community as well.

Josie Gardner (08:09):

Yeah, I think it builds an opportunity for people regardless of their own kids or background. It helps build empathy and understanding because you might have those conversations of like, yeah, bedtime's hard and they're like, their kid doesn't have a diagnosis, but bedtime's hard for them too. And so you start to kind of normalize. My kid, yes, has some things going on, but also they're just like any other kid, and it helps those other people better understand the world around them and have better empathy for differences in kids.

Stephanie Landis (08:44):

I've also found that I'll be talking to a parent and I'll be like, oh, how did you find out about this? Whatever it is. And they'll be like, oh, well, my friend had used this therapist or my friend went to this sports place and they found that they worked really well with kids with difficulties with attention or regulation, and that parents are such a great wealth of knowledge among each other that if you're not talking to your family members or your friends about it, you might then be missing out on a lot of really great resources.

Meredith Krimmel (09:15):

So in those situations where a family might share a diagnosis or challenges that their child faced with their family or friends and they get a more negative reaction, what advice would you give those families on how they could work through that with their family or friends?

Josie Gardner (09:33):

So I think one of the things to focus on when discussing with family about the diagnosis is trying to gear the conversation back to the child and to the child's strengths or needs or the things that they need to support them. So when you open the conversation, somebody may try to steer it to this generalized view of, oh, autism is, and I think just responding by, I hear those things and I hear your concerns with that. What I really want to focus on is just my child and some of the things that we know have been really helpful for him or her. So yeah, I have actually a couple little scripts that I wrote down for those situations specifically. Love that. Because I know sometimes someone might respond, oh, but all kids do that or he'll grow out of it. You

Meredith Krimmel (10:33):

Did that as a kid.

Josie Gardner (10:34):

Yeah, or I did that. Everybody does that. It's just a phase. You might let them know. Yes, a lot of kids do some of these things, but for Jenny it's more intense and affects her life. So that's why we're learning ways to support her and help her out, and here's some of the things that we know help her. I know also maybe someone might respond with, you just need to be stricter, they just need more discipline.

Stephanie Landis (11:04):

Hate that one.

Josie Gardner (11:05):

Yeah. I think letting them know, actually we've realized that Jenny responds best to predictability and to connection over punishment, and we've seen a really big difference when we focus on whatever approach you're using or language you're using, just to give them the tools to know, Hey, this is how you can support my child. This is what we've noticed, and even if it is this big thing, who knows about all these diagnoses and what it all means and where it all comes from. That's just a whole different can of worms that you guys don't need to get into. It's really just about the child that you're talking about and how to help them. That's great advice. I

Stephanie Landis (11:47):

Love that. And also from my own personal experience, one, my family would say something similar and I'd be like, yeah, because I had undiagnosed executive functioning and I gave this to her, so we're going to work on them. But also sometimes it's also then going back to it and when the grandparents, or especially for me, it's grandparents and I have amazing parents and but it's just being like, that approach doesn't work for this child. They get overwhelmed. They shut down and they're going to respond this way. If you try this approach, you will be much more successful. I know that it seems like we may be giving in or not punishing, but trying this way and then having the back conversations later leads to actual better results, which it sounds like

Josie Gardner (12:40):

Is

Stephanie Landis (12:40):

What you're giving a script of like, yes, great. And this is what works

Josie Gardner (12:46):

For us,

Stephanie Landis (12:47):

Which is so hard to do.

Josie Gardner (12:48):

Yes. Yeah, I think in those moments it's going to be really hard because there's so much emotion that's coming up both for you and for the other person. And that's a great time to really practice what we practice here at Paris, which is just literally taking a breath. We call it the skill of composure, but you just have to take a moment and take a big breath and get that sinking brain turning back on so that you can really get to the root of one, what is this person really saying? What's underneath these messages? Is there a bigger emotion? Is this person feeling worried? Are they feeling like they have their own beliefs about what that diagnosis means? And so when you can take a step back and be like, okay, let's just shift this conversation away from that, or even acknowledging to that person, Hey, this is a lot to process, it's a lot for me to process too. It sounds like you have a lot of questions or a lot of concerns about my child and letting them know you're going to work on it together or try to better understand it together just because it's a lot for them and a lot for you. Yes.

Stephanie Landis (14:02):

And as you're saying that, it makes me think of, a lot of times these things come up in the moment and then our brains shut off and then I'm like, oh, I should have said this. Or parents are feeling so hurt and they're like, oh, I didn't stand up for my kid in that time. I just had such big feelings. Or if you're like me, you're sassy side comes out and then you say something that was like, maybe there was a kinder way I could have said that. Do you suggest people having conversations in the moment, coming back to them, having those scripts seems like a great way to have an automatic in the moment response, and then would it be a circle back? How do you navigate that with parents?

Josie Gardner (14:41):

Yeah, I think that's going to be dependent on the parent. Some people may feel that they can be composed enough to hang through that conversation and others feel like it's too much to try to break down and think about. In this moment, I do think it's okay to take the conversation in steps or if someone's coming up to you or it's coming up kind of just like say it's the holidays and it's just chaotic. There's a lot of other kids, there's a lot of other family it might be saying, how about we schedule a time to talk about this more privately or just another day? I have all these other things on my mind and I want to give this conversation the best attention that I can. But yeah, I think recognizing the moment where you are feeling, again, that thinking brain is starting to come off. Emotion brain is coming on, it might just be naming, Hey, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. Do you mind if we talk about this some more later? Because your own mental health and processing matters in that moment as well. And it can be really challenging. It's taken a long time to come to terms with what the diagnosis means for you. And I trying to share that with another person can be a lot just in the moment.

Meredith Krimmel (16:09):

I love the idea of coming back to the child versus the diagnoses because at the end of the day, that is the point of the conversation is how can we as a family, as a community support Jenny, not what does the diagnosis mean? And I know for a lot of families that I've talked to, they say that when they're speaking with friends or families about their child's diagnosis, they want to talk about trajectory and they want to talk about the future and they start forecasting. And I know that could probably feel really overwhelming for a lot of families. Do you have any advice on how a parent could respond to someone who's wanting to look really far in the future?

Josie Gardner (16:45):

Yeah, I mean, I think that's, again, just acknowledging for that other person, the underlying feeling of it seems like you're really worried about what this looks like for Johnny's future. We are also navigating that road and figuring it out as we go. We don't know all the answers, but we're happy to go over what we have been noticing, what's working and some of the things and the strengths that we've seen so far, and even inviting them that Why don't we research this some more together? Here's some resources that I found really helpful, or here's some people that we can talk to together to maybe get a better idea of how to answer some of those questions. But yeah, I think it's if the person is asking all these questions and has a lot of, it probably is worry underneath all of that. And sometimes you might just need to name, Hey, I also feel concerned about my child's future. I don't know what to expect, so let's just take it one step at a time.

Stephanie Landis (17:58):

Yeah, I think that's an important thing that sometimes I also forget is that these other people love and care about our children very much too. And then also if it is, say again, a grandparent, your grandparent, your child's grandparent is your parent, so then they're worried about you and the child. And so while sometimes I want to be like, it's not about you, that is a much better way that you put it, acknowledging what this all means to them on top of them being like, I am sharing those same concerns. Going back to though we are in it as a team, what they're saying in the moment, the questions might be overwhelming or I may be perceiving them because I'm emotional in a negative light. What they're really trying to do is share their worry or ease some of their fears, and that's a very generous way of looking at it and probably builds more positive feelings amongst you than just going to the place of they are overwhelming me, or they ask so many questions or they just don't understand they're not getting

Josie Gardner (19:07):

It. And I think too, sometimes you can do that and the person is still very persistent. I think it's okay to set limits or boundaries around the conversation inappropriate way of just like, Hey, again, I don't really have a lot of the answers that you're looking for, and I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed in this conversation. And again, it's either rescheduling or just letting them know that I'd prefer to focus more on this part of my child and these things that we're doing. And just trying to steer it back to, again, this is where we're at in this moment. This is where the kid is at in this moment, and I'm not feeling super open to conversations about all that other stuff because it's just too hard, it's too much, and I just don't have answers for you.

Stephanie Landis (20:03):

I love that. Earlier we talked about how sharing can help other people give you things that have worked for them. It also then opens you up to a lot of unsolicited advice going back to scripts other than, again, my default is always to be sarcastic, knowing that that's not the best route. Do you have any tips or scripts for dealing with unwanted and unsolicited advice?

Josie Gardner (20:29):

That's a good one. I haven't prepared those ones yet, so I'll have to think about it. The first thing that really comes to mind is just again, acknowledging, Hey, I hear you really want to offer me some extra advice, and you've learned some really cool things right now. I feel like I have a lot of support system that I'm leaning into for that, but I really appreciate you are wanting to share your knowledge with me, so it's like, thanks for connecting.

Stephanie Landis (21:01):

What I'm doing is working for me.

Josie Gardner (21:02):

Yeah, right. It's like the kind way of being like, no, thank you, thank you. Next, I'll keep that in the back of my mind

Meredith Krimmel (21:10):

If I ever need to pull from it, which I mean, who knows? Maybe you will, who knows? Depends what kind of advice they're giving.

Stephanie Landis (21:17):

I was going to say, I think all parents or people in general at some point come across unsolicited advice.

Josie Gardner (21:23):

That

Stephanie Landis (21:23):

Is a much who hasn't more kind way of being like, I hear you are really trying to support me and what I got going on is good. Thanks.

Josie Gardner (21:31):

And I think when I picture it, it's similar to we respond. We have kids that ask us a lot of questions and we have to respond in similar ways, but with adults, obviously it feels a little harder. I think sometimes some people really are persistent and need a clear boundary, and you can draw that line of just like, Hey, if you're continuing to ask these questions and have this conversation, I may just walk out of the room because I'm not ready to have this conversation right now and prepping and front loading of like, Hey, I'm really not open to this advice again, I appreciate it. I know it's coming from a good place. I'm not interested. And just physically remove yourself from that conversation if needed. I think eventually the person hopefully will get the idea that you're not having that conversation with them. You're not physically staying in the room with them. It's not really your job to carry or worry too much about the other person's feelings about that because at that point it is recognizing my feelings and where I'm at is important and matters, and this person needs to do what they need to do to process this information. I don't have to do that for them.

Stephanie Landis (22:52):

Yeah, I know. Another worry is that if people have these conversations with their friends or family that it might change family dynamics. I also think about it as family dynamics are constantly changing for everyone anyway, but when those family dynamics change, there's definitely underlying feelings. I know this could be a whole other podcast topic, but do you have any quick either self mantras or something that parents can use to help them work through having those moments of, I am noticing that things are shifting and changing, dealing with that emotional change?

Josie Gardner (23:31):

Yeah, I mean, I think it's just coming back to the child that you're advocating for again, and just really reminding yourself what is it for and who is it for? And knowing too that it's okay for things to change and people are going to just, most of us have to process that information in our own way, and it takes time. Lots of family members may be in a denial process themselves. They may be in a grieving stage, they may be just unsure how to process that information. And so really it's just recognizing it might just take time. Yes, in this moment it feels hard, but it's not going to feel hard forever. And also, if you have support systems that you can lean into, really taking time to lean into those groups, whether it's a parenting group or the other parents, if they're a parish kid, talking to some of the other parents, talking to the teachers or the staff, but getting support where you can, if it's feeling like the stuff at home feels shaky or uncertain or hard at that time.

Stephanie Landis (24:50):

Yeah, because even thinking of little things like family get togethers where there's going to be some expectation of a family meal and you're bringing your picky eater and you're like, oh my gosh, here it goes again. We're either going to not come because I know we're going to get harped on the fact that I brought goldfish and chicken nuggets for my child to eat, or we're going to hear the same thing over and over again. And it's just, you're right. You just have to find another way to lean on other people to work through that shifting emotion.

Josie Gardner (25:21):

Yeah, I think the phrases that I usually tell myself for things, they're just common conscious discipline or perish things. We talk some about no one, I think it's like no one can make you angry without your permission. And so leaning into not only do they not have the power over me in my emotions, but also I'm not in charge of them or their feelings. So I'm going to make this choice. And if they're angry, they can tell me it's my fault all they want, but in reality, they're in charge of their feelings and their emotions and their reactions. And then also just the, we say Q-tip, which is quit taking it personally. And so you may have family members that have a lot of opinions and have a big reactions, but it's not personal to you or to your child. So letting go of that and just being like, okay, I'm focusing on this is what I know is going to help my child. This is what I know is going to help my family.

Meredith Krimmel (26:26):

Yeah, I was thinking back to the positive side of sharing your child's diagnosis or needs or what supports them. We talked about, obviously it helps your family or friends support your child, but also it's just a really great opportunity for others to understand your child on a deeper level. And that's what everybody really wants in this world, is just to be understood. So if you're sharing that your child has a sensory processing disorder and that loud noises are really difficult for them, then you're helping your whole family and friends understand that your child might not want to go to a birthday party at a loud place or might not want enjoy the arcade other kids do, and just to be understood and then valued, well, maybe that's not the best place to have this event, this family event. Maybe we should consider something else. And I know we spent a lot of time talking about some of the harder things that come out of sharing it, sharing your child's diagnosis or needs, but there's so many positive things that could come out of it too.

Josie Gardner (27:24):

Yeah, I mean, I do think it, and again, helps even for your child too, to see some of those advocacy skills and just how I think really even for the other people, everybody has things that they need. Everybody experiences stuff that would make them feel better. And I don't know if all of us were raised in environments where we've been given permission to acknowledge that or to find the tools or resources we need to support ourselves. And so you're modeling for those people too that like, Hey, not only do my kids' needs matter, but your needs matter. Your child's needs matter. Everybody is different and has different needs. And so you're just showing what it looks like to exist in a world where everybody's different and how to love each other despite some of those differences.

Stephanie Landis (28:18):

To me, that positive is going back to if somebody shared like, oh, I'm allergic to peanuts,

(28:23):

Well, then you would not bring them Reese's peanut butter cups to birthday parties, and you're allowing then parents to have the opportunity to make some changes, then it'd be like, great. Then I will give them whatever treats or food it is that makes them feel good or happy. It's the same thing as being thinking about, I've got food on my brain clearly thinking about having a preferred food off to the side at those family events. So sharing might lead to more talks about it, but it might also lead to family members being like, great, I have headphones ready, and I know that they don't love playing these games, so I brought Play-Doh and coloring books that they can use over here, and it gives you more community and more support, and it allows for people to support your kid in the way they want. But I think you're so right. In the class that I'm working in now, I keep telling them that I don't go by the golden rule anymore of treat other people how you want to be treated. And that now in our group, we go by the golden rule of treat other people the way they want to be treated.

(29:26):

And I think this kind of offers an opportunity to expand everybody's knowledge and put a child first and be like, this is the way my child needs to be, have their needs met, or This is what we're doing for our child because it's what's best for them in this way. So I have loved this, and I could probably keep talking to you for hours, but do you have any one last tip that you want to leave us with? At the end of every podcast, we ask our guests to give a piece of advice, and it can be on this topic or it can be general life advice. If you had one piece of advice to give, it can be even as simple as carry an umbrella in your car, eat your broccoli, whatever. What would you

Josie Gardner (30:03):

Give? I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is just that taking a breath piece. I feel like I have to remind myself all the time to just pause and take a breath. So yeah, just whenever you're feeling some type of way, just remember, take a big breath and hopefully your thinking brain will turn back on. That is great advice. Yes. Awesome. Well,

Stephanie Landis (30:29):

Thank you so much for being a guest. Thanks.

Meredith Krimmel (30:32):

Thank you for listening to the Un Babbled podcast. For more information on today's episode, please see our episode description. For more information on the Parish School, visit Parish School.org. If you're not already, don't forget to subscribe to the Un Babbled Podcast on your app of choice. And if you like what you're hearing, be sure to leave a rating and review. A special thank you to Joanna Rissmiller and Mackey Torres for all their hard work behind the scenes. Thanks again for listening.